Apologies for being short. I just lost a longish reply. Karma perhaps.

Do you really want to discuss the verifiability of the supernatural things you believe against the natural things I believe?

Really!

Regards
DL

You base your negative view of Gnostic Christianity on Gnosis not being verifiable.

It is. Ask anyone who claims to have done what Jesus says we can all do.

Strange that you would call Jesus a liar.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

As to your verifiability argument, do you really want to put your mythos supernatural genocidal god to the verification argument against my Gnosis and logos in such matters?

Christianity turned the androgynous Jewish Yahweh into the goofy Trinity triplets.

Only the certifiable have verification of the pooka that follows them around, that no one can see.

Regards
DL

On Origen: "This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship."

Origen never espoused a mythical interpretation of Christ. Origen never espoused Gnosticism; he spoke against it.
It is falsely equivocal to conflate syllogism with mythicism like Tim Freke does. He is a hack. His understanding of ECF's is unacceptably nonacademic and unscholarly. Essentially you make the same error of logic where you take the gnositic knowledge Tim Freke pulls out of his ars and make it real knowledge. Yes, I experience his ignorance and it is not real knowledge. And expecting me to believe a mythical history that is only explainable by Tim Freke's gnosis is not an experience I'd wish on any rational creature. And no, I didn't speak out my ass, I linked you to scholarly primary source material that is properly cited and peer reviewed, which is something Time Freke is unable to do because he is a spiritual guru of fake knowledge and not a historian. I also linked the New Advent copy of St. Ireneaus lengthy treatment on this nonsense you call Gnosticism. It isn't my opinion, but that of the early Church Fathers and the universal church Christ founded.

If you have a problem with any the Inquisitions we can have a conversation about that. I do not defend mass murder. I do not defend sin. I do defend a secular government's right to protect its citizens by use of capital punishment. I do not defend the use of capital punishment for heresy or conversos. And you should be able to objectively defend Catharist's beliefs that were truly civilization-destroying conjecture (ritualistic suicide and anarchism by feudal standards) and quite irrational at that. No offense, but I'm going to be rather skeptical of your understanding the Inquisitions because you've already revealed a terrible accounting of historical analysis by citing Tim Freke. And the other thing that makes a conversation difficult is I can assume that anything you posit as knowledge could be some subjective knowing (gnosis) by your own authority that is not verifiable, reasoned, nor revealed and contra the every teachings of Catholic Christianity since the time of Christ. Maybe you view that as a strawman, but that was St. Ireneaus' position which I hold as all Catholics do.

Regards to you as well

"Origen didn't espouse Gnosticism. In fact he was dead set against it;"

I did not say anything of Origen and Gnostics. Your reading comprehension needs work.

You believe what your inquisitors wrote to justify their mass murders. Ok.

You also speak out of your ass on Gnostic Christians because you did not want to speak to logos versus your pathetic mythos, which is what I talked about.

You say that Gnosis isn't real knowledge?

Have you found some and was it not real knowledge? If not, what did you experience?

Regards
DL

Tim Freke is a hack:

https://www.westarinstitute.org/resources/the-fourth-r/pseudo-scholarship-illustrated/

Origen didn't espouse Gnosticism. In fact he was dead set against it;

https://iep.utm.edu/origen-of-alexandria/

Gnosticism is fake Christianity. Gnosis isn't real knowledge.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103.ht

I E. Christians say god can kill us all he likes, because he created us.

Note how that last is impossible to how. I see it as a hypocrites reply, as there is no possible reply from one who is using logos and not mythos.

Apologists use the same type of dishonesty when saying that god knows more than we do, given that they have no first hand information.

If apologists stuck with logos, they would have respect, but they do not as their ideology falls apart when logic and reason is applied.

Have a look at how great apologetics was for both sides before supernatural magical thinking ruined Christianity.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Regards
DL

Biggest example is Constitutional Sin from Federal Headship from Adam. Someone only recently put into words my thoughts and implications based on that theory as an assumption: it turns sin from a crime of my doing into an inborn affliction. It turns my birth into a crime by God, turns the crucifixion from an act of Mercy to an act of Justice against God as a remedy for this affliction, turns God's justice into cruelty, and makes God into a trickster who will endanger you then save you to demand praise for saving you from himself.
If this represents all Christianity, the Fundamentalist has put out a twisted projection on what a just God is.

Martin Luther rejected the Catholic Church and died outside the Church.

The Holy Spirit cannot say two different things.