What about the billions of non-Christians? The other faiths? Are they wrong?

Which all really comes down to, why is there a "has to be" in your sentence, your thinking?

You may urgently feel that, but I urgently feel things, too. Possibly in opposition to your urgent feelings.

Sorry, that doesn't show the laws of nature were constructed for the purpose of creating life. That's taking the outcome of something, and ascribing the event condition before as a purpose.

Thanks for that. Thank you for a good and respectful discussion.

"Ultimately at some point all I can say is I value human life and flourishing are paramount. I can't back that up with any objective evidence, it is just something I feel. "

Thanks, Brian, for the insightful response. What you're saying makes sense to me. After I asked the question, I thought about it some more offline, and I see nothing inconsistent with your desire to be happy, and your wanting your child to be happy and instructing him/her according to how you think he/she will be happy (i.e. "flourish", as you say). For, after all, we all desire to be happy, and whether you call it codependency or not, the happiness of others is related to our own happiness. From my PoV, the desire to be happy is a great starting point towards finding the good.

As I said below, I discovered this website recently, and I'm recommending it to all my friends because it compiles a lot of the available data on happiness in the "Science of Happiness" section. I have no special interest here except that I have found it to be helpful in identifying areas I should work on.

http://www.pursuit-of-happiness.org/

I don't know about completely subjective. But I'm not aware of any objective morality in the sense meant by apologists.

Sure I feel lots of things are okay. I have very strong feelings about moral issues.

I would teach a child my morality and I would explain why I thought things are wrong. But correct the child, how would I know what the objectively correct action is?

At some point the child will keep asking "why"? Ultimately at some point all I can say is I value human life and flourishing are paramount. I can't back that up with any objective evidence, it is just something I feel. And that is exactly what subjective is. Based on a personal feeling rather than some clear demonstrable truth.

"Well I doubt your friend would accept humans dying and suffering to maintain trees."

You might have heard about the group Earth First. They're famous for chaining themselves to trees which are about to be cut down.

I am not sure I have ever before met someone who believed that morality was completely subjective. Do you feel OK teaching your child your moral values if your values are really so arbitrary? Do you correct him when he makes an incorrect moral judgment?

No I don't believe in objective moral truth I think the best we can do is consider our own subjective values, e.g. That human life and well being are paramount, and act in furtherance of these. Christians generally call this subjective.

Well I doubt your friend would accept humans dying and suffering to maintain trees, but if she sincerely does I really do not have an argument to say she's wrong.

"that human well-being is of paramount moral value, does that allow me to say this is an objective moral truth"

Do you believe it is an objective moral truth?

A good test might be is whether you believe someone is _wrong_ to hold an incompatible moral value. For instance, a person who believes the well-being of trees is more important than the well-being of humans. I once dated an environmentalist who held something like this point of view. What's so important about human well-being given that humans are destroying the earth goddess and wreaking havoc on the pristine beauty of nature?

Is she wrong to hold to a different value system? If so, then why?

Sure, you believe it is good, you have a subjective opinion that it is valuable.

Well if we look at what the human body accomplishes, it is feces, urine, carbon dioxide, every human every day.

Ok, so by your logic my assessment, for example, that human well-being is of paramount moral value, does that allow me to say this is an objective moral truth? Because I think it is just what you have done.

"How do you know? How do you know digestion and nutrition are not ordered towards defecation?"

I conclude this because I believe that human life is objectively good and recognize that digestion and nutrition assist in the sustenance of that good.

As an engineer, I would compare this to the process of reverse engineering the function of a circuit or a piece of software by looking at the mechanism and seeing what it accomplishes.

"You say it, but that is just your opinion, that is a subjective purpose. "
The assessment is subjective, but the conclusion of that assessment is what I believe is an objective truth.