极速赛车168官网 Comments on: What Do You Think of the Fine-Tuning Argument for God? https://strangenotions.com/what-do-you-think-of-the-fine-tuning-argument-for-god/ A Digital Areopagus // Reason. Faith. Dialogue. Tue, 03 Mar 2020 07:17:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.1 极速赛车168官网 By: Josh Leibold https://strangenotions.com/what-do-you-think-of-the-fine-tuning-argument-for-god/#comment-207983 Tue, 03 Mar 2020 07:17:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6448#comment-207983 I think Premise 1 contains a false dichotomy. Necessity is opposed to chance, but necessity might not be opposed to design/ chance might not opposed to design. Design does not belong in Premise 1. For your illumination, consider this: any designing that occurs must either have occurred 1) necessarily or 2) contingently (by chance). Whichever you choose, it doesn’t matter. The point is that if design fits in one of the other two categories, it’s not a three way competition in Premise 1. It’s just back to necessity vs chance. And without design in premise 1, the argument falls apart.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Fred https://strangenotions.com/what-do-you-think-of-the-fine-tuning-argument-for-god/#comment-197053 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:57:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6448#comment-197053 In reply to Philip Rand.

I didn't say it was a fallacy. I am saying the unstated assumption should be exposed.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Fred https://strangenotions.com/what-do-you-think-of-the-fine-tuning-argument-for-god/#comment-197041 Tue, 19 Feb 2019 20:19:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6448#comment-197041 In reply to Philip Rand.

It's not a formal fallacy. Rather, the question entails assumptions that have not been established as true, and any simple answer to the question is seemingly confirming. The assumption isn't even a non-sequiter, because it's not in an argument. Consider your example:

QUESTION: Fred, have your stopped beating your wife?
FRED: I don't know.

QUESTIONER (a newspaper reporter) writes: "Fred claims he doesn't know if he's stopped beating his wife! What an a-hole!"

If Fred has never beaten his wife, he should challenge the unstated assumption rather than give a simple answer.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Mark https://strangenotions.com/what-do-you-think-of-the-fine-tuning-argument-for-god/#comment-196995 Mon, 18 Feb 2019 19:12:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6448#comment-196995 In reply to Fred.

This would imply [b]the universe is fine-tuned for life ONLY IF the
universe was intended for life. (this is the teleological assumption).
This unstated assumption makes the argument circular. [/b]

I think you're confusing terms here. It would be circular if the term "fine-tuned" assumes design. I understand the term to be be used by atheists and theists as the Goldilocks zone of physical laws as they exist in our cosmos, given their range of possibility. "fine-tuned" is not synonymous with "intelligent design". It could be termed to say planets instead of life.

It could be a product of more fundamental physics; it could be a product of quantum uncertainty, or it could be brute fact.

It could be, but we don't have the physics to explain that more simplified understanding of the cosmos. Brute fact violates PSR.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Sample1 https://strangenotions.com/what-do-you-think-of-the-fine-tuning-argument-for-god/#comment-196993 Mon, 18 Feb 2019 18:49:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6448#comment-196993 In reply to Fred.

Dawkins, when pushed, was once asked to name the most compelling reason to believe in some kind of creator. He chose the fine tuning example.

For me, the fine tuning argument is faulty in many ways. Here is just one. I think it’s putting Descartes before the horse. First demonstrate a god(s) exists, then one can claim how fine tuning is used as the mechanism for life.

The claim is essentially a circumstantial evidence ploy where the evidence is actually fine tuned (ignoring how the solar system isn’t conducive to life as we know it) for a creator that is not even demonstrated.

Mike

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极速赛车168官网 By: Fred https://strangenotions.com/what-do-you-think-of-the-fine-tuning-argument-for-god/#comment-196988 Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:13:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6448#comment-196988 The fine-tuning argument is a clever trick; it's based on a loaded question: why is the universe fine-tuned for life? Just as "have you stopped beating your wife" entails the assumption you're beating your wife, the fine-tuning question assumes the universe is fine-tuned for life.

The known laws of physics contain certain dimensionless constants. It's unknown if they could have been different, but perhaps they could.So some scientists have determined that small differences in these constants would result in a universe vastly different from this one - and consequently, life would be impossible. This would imply [b]the universe is fine-tuned for life ONLY IF the universe was intended for life. (this is the teleological assumption). This unstated assumption makes the argument circular. [/b]

It's certainly true that this universe depends on the constants being what they are (what's surprising about that?) and that life is a consequence of the universe as it exists (also no surprise ). Without the teleological assumption, the scientific question becomes: why do the constants have these values rather than other values? The answer is: we don't know. It could be a product of more fundamental physics; it could be a product of quantum uncertainty, or it could be brute fact. Sure, it could be a creator - but the values of the constants, nor our existence, do not make this possibility any more likely. We are a consequence of the universe as it exists, and had the universe been different we would not exist. That trivial fact doesn't constitute evidence that we were intended.

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极速赛车168官网 By: diggit03 https://strangenotions.com/what-do-you-think-of-the-fine-tuning-argument-for-god/#comment-163656 Sat, 28 May 2016 19:34:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6448#comment-163656 In reply to Darren.

It could, but it probably wouldn't be human life.

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极速赛车168官网 By: diggit03 https://strangenotions.com/what-do-you-think-of-the-fine-tuning-argument-for-god/#comment-163655 Sat, 28 May 2016 19:29:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6448#comment-163655 In reply to David.

I think you're rude.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Doug Shaver https://strangenotions.com/what-do-you-think-of-the-fine-tuning-argument-for-god/#comment-163654 Sat, 28 May 2016 17:43:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6448#comment-163654 In reply to Peter.

As conscious beings we naturally seek out our Maker

The only beings seeking a Maker are those who are antecedently convinced that there must be one.

we are able to reason that he exists

The soundness of such reasoning is in dispute.

and are capable of recognising his handiwork in what has been made.

Of course you recognize it, if you assume that everything that has been made is his handiwork. Could there possibly be anything that, if you saw it, you would fail to recognize as his handiwork?

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极速赛车168官网 By: D Blyth https://strangenotions.com/what-do-you-think-of-the-fine-tuning-argument-for-god/#comment-163254 Mon, 16 May 2016 13:58:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6448#comment-163254 In reply to David.

Brandon was being kind even if you did not deserve it.

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