(Similar to saying that Jesus wasn't a historical man. We have more evidence for his existence than Alexander the Great.)

I don't think so.

but to say that nothing happened is completely irrational.

And I'm not saying nothing happened. I thought I made that quite clear.

Hey Doug --

The reason why over 70,000 people were there in the first place was because it was predicted beforehand. Why would 70,000 people, including journalists, skeptics and believers show up if no one mentioned it beforehand?

If you want firsthand sources, check out the work done by John de Marchi, I.M.C. He talked to firsthand witnesses and documented exactly what happened during those 6 months in 1917.

If you are worried about the credibility of the witnesses, try and track down the original articles in the newspapers that Mallet quotes (I tracked down some before, but unfortunately I am short on time right now).

Here's the rub, there is abundant evidence that something extraordinary happened that day. One can say that it wasn't supernatural in its origin, but to say that nothing happened is completely irrational. (Similar to saying that Jesus wasn't a historical man. We have more evidence for his existence than Alexander the Great. One can hold that Jesus wasn't God without saying he didn't exist.)

If interested, here is a good short discussion where some responses are given to some of the challenges that have been thrown at Fatima:

Let me begin with Mallett’s conclusion:

If the atheist refuses to believe in a supernatural event he was not alive to witness, perhaps he is able to recognize that a prophecy made by the Mother of God last century is being fulfilled right before his eyes.

God exists. He loves us. And He is intervening in our times in the most extraordinary, miraculous, and soon, definitive ways…

For starters: I am not refusing to believe. I do not believe because Mallett has not given me sufficient reason to believe. He refers many times to things that “witnesses reported,” but practically his entire essay is based on documents written by people who were not even present, and most of those writers do not identify any of their sources, either. Some of the quoted writers, for all I know, could have been witnesses, but they don’t say so and neither does Mallett.

He says the “three children” predicted what happened. As far as I can learn, there is no contemporary record of their having done so. It does seem as though somebody during the summer of 1917 claimed that a miracle was going to happen on Oct. 13 0f that year, which was the reason for the large gathering.

Having given his version of what happened, citing the aforementioned sources and no others, Mallett then offers a critique of various “explanations of how this miracle could have simply been a natural phenomenon and nothing more.” But his critique is irrelevant to me because he has given me nothing that needs explaining beyond the fact that lots of people believe that something out of the ordinary happened in that place on that day. I do agree without hesitation that something did happen, and that whatever it was, it was out of the ordinary. But exactly what happened? I don’t know, because I can’t talk to the people who were there, and I can’t tell whether any of the Mallett’s sources talked to anyone who was there, either.

And about that prophecy. In pertinent part, Mallett quotes it thus:

If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church.

In 1917, any Christian who hated communism could have spoken some words to the same effect, and many probably did.

And I never understood the low opinion that some atheists have of Craig.

His arguments invariably assume his conclusions. That's why we have such a low opinion of him.

There are a lot of things not to like about WLC.

But I agree with you that he's unafraid to accept and acknowledge the full spectrum of Yahweh's actions. He does not indulge in the careful tap dancing around Old Testament atrocities that I've seen in some articles here at SN.

No worries at all. Take your time as I ain't going anywhere...God willing!

Thank you for the links. I'm still working on a response to the Mallett article. I got sidetrack for a while.