极速赛车168官网 Comments on: Christ’s Resurrection: Bodily or Only Spiritual? https://strangenotions.com/christs-resurrection-bodily-or-only-spiritual/ A Digital Areopagus // Reason. Faith. Dialogue. Wed, 10 Jun 2020 19:51:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.1 极速赛车168官网 By: jennymartin https://strangenotions.com/christs-resurrection-bodily-or-only-spiritual/#comment-209599 Wed, 10 Jun 2020 19:51:00 +0000 https://strangenotions.com/?p=7604#comment-209599 Would there be more or less atheists today if the Early Christian church had taken the Gnostic path? how much does it cost to get a Wikipedia page

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极速赛车168官网 By: Raymond https://strangenotions.com/christs-resurrection-bodily-or-only-spiritual/#comment-209409 Wed, 27 May 2020 17:36:00 +0000 https://strangenotions.com/?p=7604#comment-209409 In reply to WCB.

My response to that question is "don't know, don't care".

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极速赛车168官网 By: Philip Rand https://strangenotions.com/christs-resurrection-bodily-or-only-spiritual/#comment-209400 Wed, 27 May 2020 04:36:00 +0000 https://strangenotions.com/?p=7604#comment-209400 Israel was bodily resurrected in 1948.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Mark https://strangenotions.com/christs-resurrection-bodily-or-only-spiritual/#comment-209384 Tue, 26 May 2020 14:47:00 +0000 https://strangenotions.com/?p=7604#comment-209384 In reply to David Nickol.

What the relationship of that risen body is to the body that was laid in the tomb is first of all not something that is historically verifiable. It is not subject to historical research at all.

Bodily resurrection would have been falsifiable and therefore historical evidence could have, or better yet should have existed that could falsify the testimony of a bodily resurrection. I agree if no body exists it cannot be historically verifiable. However, if a body exists or existed the testimonies can be, but historically important, it could have been falsifiable. 1st century Jewish burial customs and crucifixion customs are historically verifiable. The NT testimonies are in accord with this historically verifiable custom. The no-resurrection alternate theories I've seen presented about what really happened to the body do not.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Jim the Scott https://strangenotions.com/christs-resurrection-bodily-or-only-spiritual/#comment-209383 Tue, 26 May 2020 03:18:00 +0000 https://strangenotions.com/?p=7604#comment-209383 In reply to David Nickol.

>The original comment by WCB to which you and Mark reply did not assert anything about mass hallucinations. He said:Since it is well know bereavement hallucinations are quite common, it is possible that a few early such hallucinations were reported and started rumors about Jesus visiting his mourners.

Except the visitations where reported in the NT documents in groups for the most part.

>In this scenario, a few individuals separately could account for the idea of a resurrection, elaborated on as passed down orally.

Except this is just the recycled legends theory or the Gospels where made up whole cloth theory which would be simpler. Why would we need these individual hallucinations and why would they move people to believe?

When Mary saw Our Lord at the Tomb the Apostles where not quick to believe her I think. Also they might accept she saw a ghost.

>Check here for an interesting interview that I just found with John P. Meier about the Resurrection. Here's the most pertinent section:

Well I don't know that he is right about wither it is historically verifiable or not. I would have to look into some philosophy of history and I have too much natural theology on my plate.

I do believe either Craig or NT Wright might have dialoged or debated Meier on this but I will have to dig threw a lot of my books to find it.

You are right thought. It is interesting.

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极速赛车168官网 By: David Nickol https://strangenotions.com/christs-resurrection-bodily-or-only-spiritual/#comment-209381 Tue, 26 May 2020 02:58:00 +0000 https://strangenotions.com/?p=7604#comment-209381 In reply to Jim the Scott.

Mark: Mass hallucination is a made-up phenomenon made by skeptics who cannot come up with a better criticism.

Jim the Scott: The scientific literature shows Mass Hallucination is impossible.

The original comment by WCB to which you and Mark reply did not assert anything about mass hallucinations. He said:

Since it is well know bereavement hallucinations are quite common, it is possible that a few early such hallucinations were reported and started rumors about Jesus visiting his mourners.

In this scenario, a few individuals separately could account for the idea of a resurrection, elaborated on as passed down orally.

Check here for an interesting interview that I just found with John P. Meier about the Resurrection. Here's the most pertinent section:

Q: What do you think happened to Jesus’ body?

A: The true Jesus who had died rose in the fullness of his humanity into the full presence of God. That is, I think, the essence of belief in the Resurrection. What the relationship of that risen body is to the body that was laid in the tomb is first of all not something that is historically verifiable. It is not subject to historical research at all.

Indeed, theologians among themselves disagree on that question. The fundamentalists would almost have a rather crass resuscitation view. Most traditional Christians have at least read Paul, First Corinthians 15 about the necessary transformation, as well as the Resurrection appearance narratives in the Gospels. They think in terms of transformation as well as continuity.

Thus the risen body of Jesus is indeed in continuity with the body laid to rest in the tomb. But nevertheless it has undergone radical transformation as a glorified, risen body. It is no longer of this world of time and space and not subject to its laws….There is a whole range of speculative possibilities about the precise relationship of the risen Jesus to the body laid in the tomb. As a person trying to pursue historical work, that is something beyond what I can investigate

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极速赛车168官网 By: Bemyguest https://strangenotions.com/christs-resurrection-bodily-or-only-spiritual/#comment-209375 Tue, 26 May 2020 00:27:00 +0000 https://strangenotions.com/?p=7604#comment-209375 In reply to Mark.

The scientific literature shows Mass Hallucination is impossible. Hallucinations are subjective phenomena and individually experienced. They might as well plead for a psychic connection between the Apostles.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Jim the Scott https://strangenotions.com/christs-resurrection-bodily-or-only-spiritual/#comment-209376 Tue, 26 May 2020 00:27:00 +0000 https://strangenotions.com/?p=7604#comment-209376 In reply to Mark.

The scientific literature shows Mass Hallucination is impossible. Hallucinations are subjective phenomena and individually experienced. They might as well plead for a psychic connection between the Apostles.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Mark https://strangenotions.com/christs-resurrection-bodily-or-only-spiritual/#comment-209323 Wed, 20 May 2020 15:13:00 +0000 https://strangenotions.com/?p=7604#comment-209323 In reply to WCB.

Not all early Christians believed Jesus was flesh and blood. Some early
Gnostics seem to also believe Jesus was not the same as flesh and blood
men.

Gnotics were as Christian as Mormons or Buddhist. Because they share so many similar beliefs to Buddism, some scholars argue it had to be a Buddhist influenced cult. They believed in multiple Gods. They didn't believe God created the world, that was a lie. The material world is an evil realm created by demiurge. They didn't believe in reason as a source of knowledge, relied on personal transcendental esoteric experience. They don't seek salvation. Gnostics were opposed to morality and ethic codes such as the 10 commandments. Some gnostics believed Jesus was a false prophet that perverted John the Baptist Gnostic teachings. I could go on. But saying "not all early Christians believed" and equivocating Gostics with orthodox Chrstianity as has been preserved by the Catholic Church is fallacious. This is what happens when you get history lessons from the bowels of Reddit.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Mark https://strangenotions.com/christs-resurrection-bodily-or-only-spiritual/#comment-209322 Wed, 20 May 2020 14:32:00 +0000 https://strangenotions.com/?p=7604#comment-209322 In reply to WCB.

We have 5 contradictory accounts that demonstrate that there was no real information about any of this, just these anonymous tales that
can't be reconciled.

Care to cite them? Have you performed the save scrutiny of these accounts as you have for St. Paul, St. James, and the four gospel accounts.

Since it is well know bereavement hallucinations are quite common, it is possible that a few early such hallucinations were reported and started rumors about Jesus visiting his mourners.

St. Paul is the earliest writing of the resurrection. He was not in bereavement. Mass hallucinations are a made-up phenomenon made by skeptics who cannot come up with a better criticism.

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