极速赛车168官网 Comments on: Modern Atheism: Dragging Plato Along Aristotle’s Coattails https://strangenotions.com/modern-atheism-dragging-plato-along-aristotles-coattails/ A Digital Areopagus // Reason. Faith. Dialogue. Sun, 26 Apr 2020 08:37:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.1 极速赛车168官网 By: Tom More https://strangenotions.com/modern-atheism-dragging-plato-along-aristotles-coattails/#comment-208615 Sun, 26 Apr 2020 08:37:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6353#comment-208615 Excellent. I buy it with my undergraduate philosophy courses. A brilliant synthesis of our culture. I would love to read more on the particulars and more specifically on Kant. I am perhaps just too lazy to do the work myself. Many thanks for an excellent article.

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极速赛车168官网 By: mango https://strangenotions.com/modern-atheism-dragging-plato-along-aristotles-coattails/#comment-204386 Fri, 25 Oct 2019 20:49:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6353#comment-204386 I find that this post doesn't do justice to Plato. The following is a modest series of thoughts on the matter.

While Plato may have been wrong about many things, he was often profoundly right in raising the correct questions and introducing most of the necessary elements needed to resolve those questions. That he couldn't put the pieces together perfectly and that his best student was the one who would do so should not be held against him. We also have to remember that we only have his dialogues and not his lectures (and the reverse with Aristotle). You call Plato a big-picture thinker but that may simply be due to the genre that his surviving works are written in. Aristotle was writing lectures for students, of course he is going to be more focused on the details and technical ideas. But the question remains: Would Aristotle have been able to achieve what he did if he were not first a Platonist? (And the fact that Aristotle's thought matured over the years seems to be quite certain, starting from a more Platonist conception in his early days and eventually being able to break free from the limitations of Plato in his later life.)

I'll just give one example of something that Plato got profoundly right but that you seem to dismiss. His dualism, if taken in a literal sense, can seem to be the biggest flaw in his philosophy. And indeed, Aquinas shows that Plato was mistaken. But Aquinas does not dismiss the insights of Plato's dualism all together. The realm of the forms is correct if we mean that the ideas are in the Mind of God in the sense that God knows how His Essence, which is identical with His Existence, can be participated in. So in a sense Plato was right: that which is outside the realm of the forms is less "real" in the sense that it does not have being of its own but merely participates in Being. Sin, then, is a turning away from the Creator towards the creature; a turning from the real to mere shadows. Sin is a movement into the cave of lesser beings, of lesser goods. But the way out of the cave leads us to the theology of grace and to rebuke Plato for not being a Christian theologian seems silly.

None of the above would be possible without Plato's incorrect dualism. Just because something is incorrect in one sense does not mean that it has no use in other senses. Aquinas, especially through Augustine and Pseudo-Dionysius was very much influenced by Plato. Aquinas was as much of an Augustinian-Platonist as he was an Aristotelian.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Thomas J. Ryan https://strangenotions.com/modern-atheism-dragging-plato-along-aristotles-coattails/#comment-196177 Fri, 11 Jan 2019 02:59:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6353#comment-196177 No less a Thomist than Etienne Gilson said that Thomas' philosophy was more in tune with and drew more heavily from Plato than Aristotle

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极速赛车168官网 By: DLink https://strangenotions.com/modern-atheism-dragging-plato-along-aristotles-coattails/#comment-159556 Sun, 06 Mar 2016 17:48:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6353#comment-159556 One side note: The early dissenters (14th century forward) knew they had first to destroy what was already present and accepted before being able to successfully put forth their own philosophies. This continued for over five hundred years and is still attempted today. The "death of God" movement in the 1960's was one of the last manifestations that had any sort of following. Today, to avoid direct confrontation with Aristotle et al, a number of philosophers have turned to eastern thought as a vehicle for their posits, apparently without much success as their publications are often found in quantity in the markdown remainder section of bookstores. Sometimes, when truth has been adequately set out, attempting to find new directions simply leads one further away.

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极速赛车168官网 By: dippu dixit https://strangenotions.com/modern-atheism-dragging-plato-along-aristotles-coattails/#comment-159487 Sat, 05 Mar 2016 05:43:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6353#comment-159487 one is headed down the road to atheism, then almost all of the Christian theologians of the first millennia were pseudo-atheists, and even Aquinas cannot be considered to entirely escape the charge.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Peter https://strangenotions.com/modern-atheism-dragging-plato-along-aristotles-coattails/#comment-158477 Fri, 12 Feb 2016 14:11:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6353#comment-158477 In reply to George.

It's just to much of a coincidence that the early universe was exquisitely fine-tuned with the entropy-driven latent processes for life and, ultimately consciousness.

Such consciousness, as manifested for example in ourselves, is capable of two crucial things: Firstly, of philosophising in abstract terms about the existence of a supreme being, and secondly, of recognising a supreme mind behind the increasingly-revealed order and intelligibility of the cosmos.

That we are able through the power of thought to suspect a Creator without science and then, with the help of science, find that suspicion strongly justified, again represents too much of a coincidence.

When you consider a cosmos uniquely preconfigured for ultimate consciousness, and then consider that such consciousness is naturally capable of finding two separate yet complementary routes to its Maker, then the case for the existence of such a Maker becomes overwhelming.

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极速赛车168官网 By: George https://strangenotions.com/modern-atheism-dragging-plato-along-aristotles-coattails/#comment-158445 Thu, 11 Feb 2016 17:48:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6353#comment-158445 In reply to Darren.

Yay deterministic universe!

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极速赛车168官网 By: George https://strangenotions.com/modern-atheism-dragging-plato-along-aristotles-coattails/#comment-158441 Thu, 11 Feb 2016 16:44:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6353#comment-158441 In reply to Peter.

"order and design in the cosmos."

how do you identify intelligent order and design? I'd appreciate an answer this time, not a repetition of your assertion. you have a problem where you don't explain what you are talking about when asked by me at least.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Peter https://strangenotions.com/modern-atheism-dragging-plato-along-aristotles-coattails/#comment-158424 Thu, 11 Feb 2016 11:45:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6353#comment-158424 In reply to George.

As I said in my reply below, faith in the existence of the immaterial comes from historical revelation and abstract reasoning. It does not come from knowledge or awareness of any material interaction emanating from the immaterial. Therefore, even If science discovers no such interaction, faith in the immaterial remains unaffected.

For your part, you are free to reject the revelations of scripture and the abstractions of metaphysics as evidence of the immaterial and, ultimately, the divine. Even I personally would wobble if these were the only pillars on which to rest my faith.

But there is a third pillar which I've been at pains to emphasise throughout this site, and that's the increasing evidence, thanks to science, of order and design in the cosmos. Combined with the other two, this third pillar makes the case for the divine extremely compelling.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Peter https://strangenotions.com/modern-atheism-dragging-plato-along-aristotles-coattails/#comment-158423 Thu, 11 Feb 2016 11:21:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=6353#comment-158423 In reply to Ray Vorkin.

I'm not faulting Carroll for his attempt at understanding the soul, but for his attempt at falsifying it.

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