极速赛车168官网 Comments on: What is an Ad Hominem Fallacy? https://strangenotions.com/what-is-an-ad-hominem-fallacy/ A Digital Areopagus // Reason. Faith. Dialogue. Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:38:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.1 极速赛车168官网 By: Mike https://strangenotions.com/what-is-an-ad-hominem-fallacy/#comment-53169 Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:38:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4132#comment-53169 Excellent, thanks.

And yes just bc some argument fits into some possible fallacy doesn't automatically mean that it is actually committing the fallacy.

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极速赛车168官网 By: bill b https://strangenotions.com/what-is-an-ad-hominem-fallacy/#comment-52397 Fri, 30 May 2014 18:22:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4132#comment-52397 Catholicism's reputation is not helped in this area by media prominent Bill Donahue who uses ad hominem attacks more than I use Southern Comfort in June. And Catholics send him 400K a year...to keep hurling the dirt.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Mrshopey https://strangenotions.com/what-is-an-ad-hominem-fallacy/#comment-51588 Tue, 20 May 2014 09:26:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4132#comment-51588 I always thought when in a discussion or debate, when it started to get into personal attacks, that the debate was over. I have been the recipient of personal attacks in the combox, but that was a reflection of their character disorder (troll, etc).
Although I could understand an expert in a field engaging in some debates and judging not to, it just seems out of line to attack the person. If I thought someone was trollish, then it would be better not to "feed" them or engage them.
For example, I know a popular apologist who does just this, attacks the person of those disagreeing with what he presents. I no longer consider him a reliable source because in some cases, a simple google search tells me otherwise.
I will have to think about this more because in the psy, one hallmark of an aggressor is delve into personal attacks.

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极速赛车168官网 By: NicholasBeriah Cotta https://strangenotions.com/what-is-an-ad-hominem-fallacy/#comment-51335 Fri, 16 May 2014 16:00:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4132#comment-51335 In reply to Brandon Vogt.

Yes, I have a BA so I understand the price of textbooks. If you sell a thousand books, maybe $4 is not a just and living wage, but is selling the same book for $14 a just and living wage either? I mean before we get in to an economic argument of supply/demand, it just is not sufficient to say that the price a book sells for should provide a just and living wage because there are so many other factors.
I realize all of the free material available (for example from Kreeft), but let's face it, excellently organized content always costs a premium effectively helping enforce a system where people with money have an easier time accessing that level of quality- that is why I proposed the kind of 10-year rule. After 10 years, how many copies of X book is a prominent author like Kreeft going to sell? Hundreds of copies? Wouldn't it be a greater service to those disadvantaged learners of the faith out there to put up electronic editions on line for free thus allowing them access to a de facto "VIP club" that is created when books cost $20+? At some point, you see a lot of the most well catechized Catholics come from the upper middle class, and while that's due to many factors, one is just the cost of education (both at our Catholic schools, but I would include premium books). Look at a country like France and see where Catholics are maintaining orthodoxy (hint: upper classes) and I would argue separately that good disciples come from good catechists.
Also, what is a just and living wage? Do you think the average Catholic buyer makes more or less than the average Catholic author? I am willing to bet on the latter. I am not trying to vilify or demonize anyone, but I see it as a duty to represent my lot in life (Dads who support families working 9-5 jobs making $20/hr or 40k/yr) - while I can afford to purchase certain $20 books, I certainly can read more than I can afford and 40K a year should probably be thought of as average (for 29 year olds at least, the median income in the US is around $51k) What about all of those folks below average? When we don't take pains to orient ourselves toward full participation in society by people of lesser means, then how are we witnessing ourselves as different than any other group of genre authors?
All I'm saying is that how the free market operates is not a legitimate defense for denying awareness or culpability in greater social responsibility (rerum novarum onward social doctrine taught me this) and I think it'd be nice to see prominent Catholics separate themselves in a prominent way toward this end.
I want to note that I am grateful for my own (almost-entirely-free) catechesis from prominent Catholic authors -Dr. Kreeft definitely among them but mostly The Very Reverend Robert Barron who introduced me to the heart of the Catholic faith (during RCIA) simply through his recorded homilies free on itunes (and of course, his youtube videos, but I thought the greater depth was found in those homilies.) I don't mean to criticize anyone directly, only bring out a general awareness among us a community because I have benefited greatly from the generous work already provided for me.
I just find right now that to excel from good to great would require a program available on the internet similar to the rise of the free MOOCs; how come secular computer programmers are acting more charitably than we are? Or in this specific case (Dr. K's textbook here), Catholic textbooks and other advanced academic books (And now I see... or Bridging the Great Divide come to mind) could be donated to an online compendium. Wouldn't that be relatively easy and serve the greater good of our community and the world? (Hint: next WoF project, haha) Sorry, I really apologize if I sound smug or ungrateful, I am definitely not, I just want to voice my sad, little myopic world view to someone who would know better the world opposite me. Also, I have violated the integrity of this thread with this post so I'll definitely make this my last response!

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极速赛车168官网 By: David Nickol https://strangenotions.com/what-is-an-ad-hominem-fallacy/#comment-51334 Fri, 16 May 2014 15:50:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4132#comment-51334 In reply to Sean Alderman.

I spent my whole career in book publishing (mostly college textbooks), and although I am often just as dismayed by the high cost of textbooks and professional books as others are, I can tell you for a fact that publishers (and people who work in the textbook publishing business) are not raking in the cash! Publishing is just not a very profitable industry. The cost of printing and binding is a small part of cost of the average textbook, so while publishing a book only as an e-book (Kindle, Nook, etc.) will theoretically make it cheaper, many people (including college students buying textbooks) still want print versions. I have seen many "exposés" of the textbook industry by groups bemoaning the high cost of textbooks, but they rarely understand what they are talking about. How a book is priced is more complicated than most people imagine, and although I worked on some very expensive textbooks during my years in publishing, I can tell you that nobody ever said, "Let's jack up the price on this so we can make a bundle!"

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极速赛车168官网 By: Sean Alderman https://strangenotions.com/what-is-an-ad-hominem-fallacy/#comment-51332 Fri, 16 May 2014 15:08:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4132#comment-51332 In reply to NicholasBeriah Cotta.

Book profiteering is an interesting problem, but I'm not sure that's the case here. I was fascinated by some of the details presented in First Things recently on the topic. I've yet to hear of the Catholic Church buying up 100,000 copies of a Catholic author's book to put it on the NYT best seller's list. Perhaps the Catholic media outlets do that, but again perhaps I've just not heard of it. I do also imagine it happens in other arenas as well given the prestige the NYT list gives the author (or cause presented in the book).

Did your $4 book get published in hard cover?

Seems like Amazon says it's rentable (perhaps only if you're an AmazonStudent member), so I imagine it's a text book. From what I understand, textbooks don't earn the authors very much money. I'd guess that I've got a lot of ignorance in that area though, since I'm not an author, much less a textbook author.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Brandon Vogt https://strangenotions.com/what-is-an-ad-hominem-fallacy/#comment-51331 Fri, 16 May 2014 14:01:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4132#comment-51331 In reply to NicholasBeriah Cotta.

Nicholas, first of all this is a hefty (400 page), hardcover textbook--not just a general trade paperback. And if you've taken undergraduate or graduate courses recently, you'll know that $34 is a crazy-good bargain for a textbook.

Second, Peter Kreeft offers a vast amount of material free online--including dozens of hours of podcasts on faith and philosophy--at PeterKreeft.com.

Finally Catholics, among others, believe in paying a just and living wage for service and products. Speaking as the author of three books, I can tell you without hesitation that $4 for a book is not a living wage. That's not saying publishers should *never* charge $4--it could be a shrewd marketing strategy to undersell a loss-leader--but it does nullify any demands that authors sell their books for so low.

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极速赛车168官网 By: NicholasBeriah Cotta https://strangenotions.com/what-is-an-ad-hominem-fallacy/#comment-51330 Fri, 16 May 2014 13:06:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4132#comment-51330 In reply to Brandon Vogt.

I know this is off-topic but after clicking a link to a $34 book, I must say: As someone who recently published a book for $4, do you think prominent Catholics authors should focus on putting out more free/near free material - or maybe putting a pact together that would allow things to become free after 10 years or something? We are in an era in which the costs of publishing are severely diminished so simply saying, "That's what it costs" is no longer a very good excuse. One of the things you see so much in Christendom is profit-making (especially in protestantism, but I rarely see new prominent Catholic authors offer cheap books, haha) while people need to make money to live, at what point do we witness as a community that there are limiits?

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极速赛车168官网 By: Randy Gritter https://strangenotions.com/what-is-an-ad-hominem-fallacy/#comment-51327 Thu, 15 May 2014 22:51:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4132#comment-51327 An ad hominem should not be part of an argument. The exception would be an argument from authority where the authority's credibility becomes the issue. I feel arguments from authority only work where the authority is beyond question. If your authority's expertise is not accepted by your opponent then that line of argument is dead and you should exclude it.

The other examples are not involving an argument but a person. What level of respect should we give a person? Should this commenter be banned? Should this person be published or tenured or even fired as a philosopher?

Often those arguments can be converted to a more criminal approach. Have they committed a crime against charitable dialogue? The crime needs to be specific. The evidence clear. At some point somebody gives a verdict. Guess what? Not everyone agrees. Mostly we just need to agree to disagree about people. If one guy thinks Richard Dawkins is brilliant and another thinks he is a buffoon then discussing that topic is unlikely to be fruitful.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Brandon Vogt https://strangenotions.com/what-is-an-ad-hominem-fallacy/#comment-51324 Thu, 15 May 2014 20:27:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4132#comment-51324 In reply to David Nickol.

Good observation, David. I've seen that come up far too many times--in both directions--in Catholic/atheist dialogue.

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