It's very common. See http://disq.us/p/1dbow36 Then take it further: Any appeal to Good lands inside something akin to the illusory landscape of Poetic Naturalism and the syntax of useful but not true, as per http://disq.us/p/1j7kzs8 Just as anemic in explanatory reach is the fact that Non-Theism cannot coherently assert anything more than an entirely illusory Evil, as per http://disq.us/p/1jamswh

Also http://disq.us/p/1dbp8tu and http://www.str.org/node/42582#.WXL_JxPytLU speak to the topic.

You and Jim had a good discussion unpacking parts of this, as per http://disq.us/p/1isztfz

First, the problem of evil for Christians also brings with it the problem of good for atheists. If God exists, we might expect less evil, but if there were no God, we wouldn’t expect so many good things in the world.

There is an asymmetry that seems significant to me. Atheists are nearly unanimous in claiming that evil is a problem for orthodox theism, and most orthodox Christians seem to agree that it is a problem and needs an explanation. I have almost never heard, outside of this forum, any Christian claiming that the existence of good is a problem for atheism, and I know of no atheist who would agree that it is.

The same Savior who didn't rejected suffriment, but passed through it -even if not as a light thing. He didn't want to suffer- and shared suffering and the feeling of abandonement of God to us, like any human. Even if that response -which I haven't invented- fits with the definition of "mistery", I think is right.

I know other perspective, which again I didn't invent: It comes form Teilhard de Chardin, so could be wrong for some to read. Be aware.

We don't live in a "Cosmos", or already ordered Universe, but in a "Cosmogenesis", or the process of creating, through an ever increasing level of -differenciating- unification performed by God, the Cosmos as the realization of Creation. From this point of view, the Universe hasn't been completed and the "Original Sin" is an spiritual, not a historical truth. But at least, God isn't guilty of the evil He shoud be avoiding, because the concept of "allmigthiness" is misunderstood: God can not, for example, do that something which happened in the past already, didn't ever happened.

I would take option 2. Evil is a corruption of good. It is not really a thing in itself. So the fact that God created the world good means He opened the possibility for the world to be corrupted.

The question then became should God allow any being in that world enough freedom to actually do it. Most don't have the freedom. A tree does not have the freedom to be a good tree or not. Humans were given that freedom. We can sin and we can love. They are two sides of the same coin.

God does more. He allows Satan to make his case. He allows him to tell us that pride and selfishness are really the road we want to be on. Then He shows us the road of self-sacrificial love is truly the right road. Yet He lets us choose. He does not force the choice by showing us undeniable evidence.

True love trusts the word of the beloved without proof. You can see that if God took the suggestions of the "problem of evil" guys that we would quickly be reduced to trees. Only able to make one choice. God wanted more for humanity. We get to make huge choices. They can have very good consequences or very bad consequences.

That is an interesting thing to believe. But don't we need at a minimum to know that there is something better? It seems we need to even agree on what that better thing is. That means such a thing must exists outside our minds. If that great society is just a invention of your mind and my mind then why should you idea match my idea? Why should our ideas even be similar to the next generations ideas? If we are constantly changing the goal are we really moving towards anything?

On the other hand if there is a truly good society we all want for the future of humanity then where did it come from? How can we know that man ought to be something without some greater intelligence designing it?

Lastly, why should we care? Is this future worth sacrificing for? Why? Why should we not just pursue short term pleasure and let future generations worry about themselves? You might feel a sense of obligation but that feeling is just an artifact of evolution. No need to let it ruin your fun in this life.

I believe that it is possible, given the right mindset and the right teaching methods, to continue to pass on those fruits of labor from one generation to the next without any need for anything supernatural to be involved.

I'm not saying it would necessarily be an easy process, but if each generation continues to educate the next in the correct way (I.E. to respect each other and everything around them, to continue to strive for something better, etc.) so as to make sure there are no fools t mess it up, then we have a very real chance of continuing to build towards the future, rather than simply saying there's no point because the world is only temporary anyway.

Just because it would take a lot of effort on the part of a lot of people does not mean that something supernatural is necessary to pull it off, that it is impossible to achieve (even if there may be set-backs at times) or that it isn't something worth striving for.

And maybe if enough people actually started to see it as something attainable, we might have a better chance of working together towards it.

I dunno, I just have a problem with that; primarily being this: If we accept your proposal that evil exists because God loved us enough to set us free, that still doesn't answer the question of how a perfect, entirely good being could create evil in the first place. In order for him to be capable of creating something, then surely he must have the capability to be that himself, correct? If that is the case, we are left with two possibilities that I can think of off the top of my head:

1. That God must be at least partially evil, in order to be able to create the concept of and ability to perform evil.

or 2. That evil is somehow a necessary thing that existed outside of God, who is supposed to have created everything.

Otherwise, evil should not even be an option, only good.

Thanks for the question Steve. I think it is great if you think some people will enjoy the fruits of you labor after you die. But for how long after? Ecclesiastes talks about smart people working hard and building something good and after they die it ends up in the hands of fools who mess it up. Is there something you can build that can withstand the mistakes of future generations? Catholics believe there is. If you believe there is I would be interested to know more. Is that something supernatural in some way?

But can we make the life of those who come after us better? What does better even mean? We can leave a big inheritance to our kids and they blow it on foolish living. Is there anything we can leave behind that it truly good and does not get used up in a few years? If there is such a thing then maybe you believe in something quasi-supernatural. Such a thing has to be stronger than man's ability to mess things up. Catholics would say that about the church. Protestants would say that about the church too but they would mean something very different by it. Anyway, if you think something is in that category I would like to know why.

That question was answered already. The answer is love. If you love something set it free. If it comes back to you it is yours. If it does not it never was. God loved us enough to set us free. To see if we would come back.

Beyond that we have the emotional questions. Why this much evil? Why is this person in pain? Why does life have to be so hard for so many? That is a question of degree and not so much of why does God allow any evil. The answer is that we don't get how evil our sin is. We think sin is no big deal. Then we can't fathom why it causes so much devastation.