You sure do set the bar of discourse mighty high, Steve. Sorry I can't keep up with you.

Judging by what I have seen here, there is also a Hitchens-Dawkins parroting basement dwelling pseudo-intellectual GNU atheist/protoneckbeard born every minute, across every culture.

Paraphrasing PT Barnum - there's a sucker born every minute, in every culture.

Or there is reason to believe that all of them reflect, in differing ways, the same transcendent reality. So spare us the regurgitated pseudo-intellectual Hitchens-Dawkins parroting blather, neck beard boy. Despite centuries of athestic hand-waving, the fact that belief in the transcendent reality arises independently across time and cultures kicks atheism in the balls and leaves it curled up on the ground in a fetal position gasping for the air that it tacitly knows it doesn't deserve but that it selfishly sucks down anyway to satisfy its solipsistic hedonism.

I think Horatio is right, Paul. Quit wasting his time - his magic fingers are desperately needed elsewhere.

On the other hand, if you're going to edit your post to high-hell, you should make a note of it, Horatio. Poor form, my good man.

I know, it's a problem but I'm never satisfied with what I type :(

, to explain why his (human) movement is supernatural while all the other movement we observe is not.

It may be a puff piece, and his argument may not be compelling, but if you still can't appreciate a difference in kind between a voluntary, conscious, willful decision to move an extremity and the automatic, reflexive pulsations of a flagellum, then I have indeed wasted your time and mine.

Well done.

I see no need for such sarcasm.

This is a simple matter, which we have spent too much time dancing around.

Kreeft's assertion is that willed motion is a special case, a supernatural event. He provides no evidence, or even cursory logic, to explain why his (human) movement is supernatural while all the other movement we observe is not.

After several leaky-sieve metaphors, he makes the intellectual leap that death is the mile-marker where a body changes from being supernaturally controlled to one of Galileo's gravitation experiments.

He ignores all the counterexamples of lower minds causing deliberate movement, non-minds causing deliberate movement, non-minds causing non-deliberate movement, or indeed human bodies with functional human minds producing non-deliberate movement.

This is a 'serious' intellectual trying to give evidence of supernatural souls based on 'willed movement', and he writes a shoddy puff piece....which you defend as factually unassailable.

Well done.

I am saying that only empirical information can be used as evidence. Empirical evidence can be trustworthy if it survives criticism.

Testimony, objects, documents are all empirical evidence. Depending on what they are and are being used to prove and how they fit with other evidence determines how credible they are, or trustworthy. A blind witness, saying he can identify the hair colour of an accused is empirical, but not credible based on the evidence of blindness etc.

I have also enjoyed the exchange, and I think you make some good points about the degree to which our experiences are testable.

~Jesse Webster