极速赛车168官网 Comments on: Did Pope Benedict Really Dismiss Evolution as ‘Science Fiction’? https://strangenotions.com/pope-benedict-evolution/ A Digital Areopagus // Reason. Faith. Dialogue. Sat, 28 Dec 2013 18:44:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.1 极速赛车168官网 By: Edwin Taraba https://strangenotions.com/pope-benedict-evolution/#comment-40923 Sat, 28 Dec 2013 18:44:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3708#comment-40923 My opinion, shared by many in various scientific field and
theologians is Evolution is not an established fact. There are huge gaps in the
theory and huge conflicts with scripture and traditional Catholic doctrine on
creation. Even Darwin
admitted the fossil record does not support his theory. Check the chapter
"Difficulties with the theory" in Origin of Species. It is well known
that paleontologists, Stephen Jay Gould for example, affirm there are no
transitional forms in the fossil record. DNA and the thousands of tiny machines
in the cell debunk random mutation and natural selection as a process. It
simply is unable to produce new species. Catholic thinking on this topic took a
bad turn in 1950 with badly misinterpreted twists of a single paragraph in the
encyclical Humani Generis. Paragrapha 36 of this encyclical is the only one
often quoted and it is badly misinterpreted. Traditional Catholic doctrine on
creation does not mix with evolution. This encyclical does call evolution
fiction. The title says "ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS OF THE HOLY FATHER PIUS
XII CONCERNING SOME FALSE OPINIONS THREATENING TO UNDERMINE THE FOUNDATIONS OF
CATHOLIC DOCTRINE”. Then read paragraph 5 "If anyone examines the state of
affairs outside the Christian fold, he will easily discover the principle
trends that not a few learned men are following. Some imprudently and indiscreetly
hold that evolution,
which has not been fully proved even in the domain of natural sciences, explains the origin of all things, and
audaciously support the monistic and pantheistic opinion that the world is in
continual evolution. Communists gladly subscribe to this opinion so that, when the
souls of men have been deprived of every idea of a personal God, they may the
more efficaciously defend and propagate their dialectical materialism” then read
paragraph 6 "Such fictitious tenets of evolution which repudiate all that is
absolute, firm and immutable, have paved the way for the new erroneous
philosophy which, rivaling idealism, immanentism and pragmatism, has assumed the name of
existentialism, since it concerns itself only with existence of individual
things and neglects all consideration of their immutable essences.” Then
read paragraph 9: "Now
Catholic theologians and philosophers, whose grave duty it is to defend natural
and supernatural truth and instill it in the hearts of men, cannot afford to
ignore or neglect these more or less erroneous opinions. Rather they must come
to understand these same theories well, both because diseases are not properly
treated unless they are rightly diagnosed, and because sometimes even in these
false theories a certain amount of truth is contained, and, finally, because
these theories provoke more subtle discussion and evaluation of philosophical
and theological truths" Then read paragraph 10 "If philosophers
and theologians strive only to derive such profit from the careful examination
of these doctrines, there would be no reason for any intervention by the
Teaching Authority of the Church. However, although We know that Catholic
teachers generally avoid these errors, it is apparent, however, that some
today, as in apostolic times, desirous of novelty, and fearing to be considered
ignorant of recent scientific findings, try to withdraw themselves from the
sacred Teaching Authority and are accordingly in danger of gradually departing
from revealed truth and of drawing others along with them into error.”

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极速赛车168官网 By: eva https://strangenotions.com/pope-benedict-evolution/#comment-32341 Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:22:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3708#comment-32341 The following is a quote from an online article "Apes "R" Not Us:
Catholics & the Debate Over Evolution, by George Sim Johnston:

"In
the autumn of 1996, Pope John Paul II complicated the picture by making some remarks
about evolution in a message to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences. Or rather,
the media complicated the picture by inaccurately reporting what he said."

Interesting article worth reading.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Geena Safire https://strangenotions.com/pope-benedict-evolution/#comment-32121 Fri, 04 Oct 2013 04:24:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3708#comment-32121 From Richard Dawkins' newest book (released September 24, 2013), a memoir entitled "An Appetite for Wonder," in a chapter in which he reflects on writing "The Selfish Gene," published in 1976 (about which emeritus pope Benedict commented):

"[This paragraph is from 'The Selfish Gene' at] the end of the chapter on the origin of of life and the spontaneous arising in the primeval soup of 'replicators', which later moved into the world of 'vehicles' -- living organisms."

Was there to be any end to the gradual improvement in the techniques and artifices used by the replicators to ensure their own continuation in the world? There would be plenty of time for improvement. What weird engines of self-preservation would the millennia bring forth? Four thousand million years on, what was to be the fate of the ancient replicators? They did not die out, for they are past masters of the survival arts. But do not look for them floating loose in the sea; they gave up that cavalier freedom long ago. Now they swarm in huge colonies, safe inside gigantic lumbering robots, sealed off from the outside world, communicaating with it by tortuous indirect routes, manipulating it by remote control. They are in you and in me; they created us, body and mind; and their preservation is the ultimate rationale for our existence. They have come a long way, those replicators. Now they go by the name of genes, and we are their survival macines.'

"That paragraph [from "The Selfish Gene" quoted above] encapsulates the central metaphor of the book, and also its science-fictiony feel. Indeed, I began my preface with the words:"

'This book should be read almost as though it were science fiction. It is designed to appeal to the imagination. But it is not science fiction. It is science. Cliche' or not, 'stranger than fiction' expresses exactly how I feel about the truth. We are survival machines -- robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules known as genes. This is a truth which still fills me with astonishment. Though I have known about it for years, I never seem to get fully used to it. One of my hopes is that I may have some success in astonishing others.'

"And the opening lines of chapter 1 continued the science fiction mood:"

'Intelligent life on a planet comes of age when it first works out the reason for its own existence. If superior creatures from space ever visit earth, the first question they will ask, in order to assess the level of our civilization, is: 'Have they discovered evolution yet?' Living organisms had existed on earth, without ever knowing why, for over three thousand million years before the truth finally dawned on one of them. His name was Charles Darwin.'

(p. 277-278)

 

Dawkins also includes part of a review of the book by evolutionary biologist W.D. Hamilton:

'This book should be read, can be read, by almost everybody. It describes with great skill a new face of the theory of evolution. With much of the light, unencumbered style that has lately sold new and sometimes erroneous biology to the public, it is, in my opinion, a more serious achievement. It succeeds in the seemingly impossible task of using simple, untechnical English to present some rather recondite nd quasi-mathematical themes of recent evolutionary thought. Seen through this book in their broad perspective at last, these will surprise and refresh even many research biologist who might have supposed themselves already in the know. At least, so they surprised this reviewer. Yet, to repeat, the book remains easily readable by anyone with the least grounding in science.'

It seems to me that Benedict may have 'received' the message that Dawkins 'sent' regarding science fiction in his book, although the former likely views it as more metaphorical and less scientifically rigorous than it was written to be by the latter.

But I think the media missed the boat in their anticipation and glee at anything that might be a sign of a fight between the emeritus pope and arguably the world's most famous living scientist -- and atheist. Dawkins is well known for his sharp criticism of the Catholic church and of Benedict specifically. But, given the above, it doesn't seem that Benedict is hitting back or, if he is, much more subtly.

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极速赛车168官网 By: finishstrongdoc https://strangenotions.com/pope-benedict-evolution/#comment-31368 Mon, 30 Sep 2013 16:15:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3708#comment-31368 The problem is science fiction is used to write laws. Aristotle said, "Law is mind without reason." When unreasonable laws are written to enable satisfaction of the demands of the flesh, you end up with anti-creation, or chaos.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Mary B Moritz https://strangenotions.com/pope-benedict-evolution/#comment-31357 Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:51:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3708#comment-31357 In reply to eva.

Dear Eva,

correct, I am with you, Faith has the Truth and Science is looking for the same Truth.

Evolution is to evolutionism as science to scientism.

Evolution is (1) a pretty well documented historical fact. Living organism change over billions of years, slowly evolve new families and species (correct English words are missing to me, my native language is German) and (2) and pretty sound theory to explain this changes over time. The current theory is based on Darwin's theory, but is now taking many factors that Darwin had no idea like isolation and genetic fitness, epigenetic factors, findings of evolutionary developmental biology (evo-devo).

One topic that evolution cannot explain is self-consciousness (that's also the point that Nagel, an atheist, is making), intellectual reasoning and free will.

What is wrong is to make of evolution an all-explaining ideology -> this is evolutionism. And the same happens in every scientific field -> take Steven Pinker, Lawrence Krauss and others. This is not Science, but scientism.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Katherine Boyes https://strangenotions.com/pope-benedict-evolution/#comment-31334 Sun, 29 Sep 2013 22:10:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3708#comment-31334 In reply to Katherine Boyes.

Somebody on facebook a couple of years ago, asked: Did God create the darkness (in Genesis)?

I read the chapter closely and realised that Genesis actually describes the formation of the earth - from a globe of ice, spinning out of orbit in the universe and in complete darkness and cold, to the warm, life-covered planet, with regulated time sequences through sun and moon transitions, that we have today.

I see ‘science’ as an attempt by feeble man to label the great creations and events of God in an effort to understand them. Through scientific observations of other planets and spheres in our universe, I can see how God created this Earth in 7 days.

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning ... the earth was a formless wasteland and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters. (The earth had not entered its current orbit in our solar system but was an ice covered sphere spinning in darkness.)

Gen 1:3-5 - Then God said, 'Let there be light" ... God then separated the light from the darkness. (The icy sphere moves into the current orbit of our solar system and is illuminated by the Sun. It begins to spin on its magnetic north/south axis and we experience 'nights' and 'days'.)

Gen 1:6-8 - Then God said, 'Let there be a dome in the middle of the waters, to separate one body of water from the other (the sky).'
(With the warmth of the Sun, the ice covering the sphere begins to melt and the blue sky is separated from the blue waters of the oceans.)

Gen 1:9-10 - Then God said, 'Let the water under the sky be gathered into a single basin, so that the dry land may appear.’ (As the molten core
of the planet became increasingly affected by the effects of gravity as it spun on its axis and was held in orbit, the magma began to shift and cataclysmic earthquakes and volcanic eruptions occurred that created the masses of dry land that rose out of the waters, and valleys that sank into giant splits in the earth’s crust. Some Bible versions say ‘voids’ to describe the valleys formed during those earthquakes.)

Gen 1:11-13 – Then God said, ‘Let the earth bring forth vegetation…’ (With the newfound warmth of the Sun, seeds lying dormant in the soil underneath the icy cap that had thawed and shifted in earthquakes, began to sprout in the volcanic ash which is extremely fertile.)

Gen 1:14-19 – Then God said: “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky, to separate day from night. Let them mark the fixed times, the days and the years, and serve as luminaries in the dome of the sky, to shed light upon the earth.” (As the great mass of volcanic ash dispersed, the stars in the solar system and beyond as the planet rotates in its new orbit now become visible from the surface of the earth. The Sun and Moon are visible as the earth spins on its axis in orbit. The stars are used to mark periods and transitions of time, seasons, months, years.)

Gen 1:20-23 – Then God said: “Let the water teem with and abundance of living creatures, and on the earth let birds fly beneath the dome of the sky.” (God created all the species of marine life and birds. This was done in the same way as the conception of Jesus Christ, through a miracle of the Holy Spirit, which is God. Note: God created the species in one day, not the multitude of their offspring!)

Gen 1:24-31 – Then God said, ‘Let the earth bring forth all kinds of living
creatures…’ (This was also done through the divine Holy Spirit of God. The same spirit that ‘hovered over the waters in the darkness’ before the earth was formed.)

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极速赛车168官网 By: Katherine Boyes https://strangenotions.com/pope-benedict-evolution/#comment-31333 Sun, 29 Sep 2013 21:26:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3708#comment-31333 I think what the Pope is saying is that scientists base their theories on cause and effect. They see the effect (reality) and imagine the cause (theory). Science is based on that principle. Man has to put labels and theories onto everything he sees and experiences in order to understand it. Whereas, God has already created the reality.

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极速赛车168官网 By: eva https://strangenotions.com/pope-benedict-evolution/#comment-31332 Sun, 29 Sep 2013 21:20:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3708#comment-31332 Dear Mary:

Faith and Reason/Science can never contradict one another. (Both come from God.)

That being said, I still think Creation has more credibility than Evolution, especially reading the likes of the aforementioned articles/books. Thank you for your letter; I, however, see that Pope Benedict Emeritus is still open to discussion and research on this issue.

I leave you with two quotes:

Evolution must not be taught as fact, but instead the pros and cons of evolution must be taught.
(Pius XII, Humani Generis)

Investigation into human “evolution” was allowed in 1950, but Pope
Pius XII feared that an acceptance of evolutionism might adversely
affect doctrinal beliefs.

Prophetic?

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极速赛车168官网 By: Mary B Moritz https://strangenotions.com/pope-benedict-evolution/#comment-31309 Sun, 29 Sep 2013 09:07:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3708#comment-31309 In reply to eva.

I would certainly think: NO, as long as evolution is taken within the borders of science (not scientism)

He has convened the meeting: Creation and Evolution (http://www.amazon.com/Creation-Evolution-Conference-Benedict-Gandolfo/dp/1586172344)

And this: "Pope Benedict XVI said the debate raging in some countries — particularly the United States and his native Germany — between creationism and evolution was an “absurdity,” saying that evolution can coexist with faith.

The pontiff, speaking as he was concluding his holiday in northern Italy, also said that while there is much scientific proof to support evolution, the theory could not exclude a role by God.

“They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other,” the pope said. “This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such.”

He said evolution did not answer all the questions: “Above all it does not answer the great philosophical question, ‘Where does everything come from?’” (It is from 2007, he said this in Italy, see http://www.nbcnews.com/id/19956961/ns/world_news-europe/t/pope-creation-vs-evolution-clash-absurdity/#.Ukft0oY70-I

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极速赛车168官网 By: Mary B Moritz https://strangenotions.com/pope-benedict-evolution/#comment-31308 Sun, 29 Sep 2013 08:52:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3708#comment-31308 In reply to Dan Carollo.

Susan Blackmore's article is thought provoking: her idea to compare religion no so much to a virus (which is always detrimental) but rather to a bacterium (which can be both, good or bad) or to a "symbiont of the mind" (always good). Still, I do not think that this the true reason why humans at all time were religious, in all form or the other. It is this innermost longing that we have in ourselves and than none other than God has put in our hearts and in our intellect.

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