极速赛车168官网 Comments on: Why Having a Heart of Gold is Not What Christianity is About https://strangenotions.com/why-having-a-heart-of-gold-is-not-what-christianity-is-about/ A Digital Areopagus // Reason. Faith. Dialogue. Tue, 02 Jun 2015 04:16:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.1 极速赛车168官网 By: TheTruthHurts https://strangenotions.com/why-having-a-heart-of-gold-is-not-what-christianity-is-about/#comment-128518 Tue, 02 Jun 2015 04:16:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4979#comment-128518 In reply to William Davis.

I ask for scripture, and you give me pure conjecture, along with some fringe Catholic "theologian" who conveniently assumes the account in Acts is unreliable! Let's just throw out the book of Hebrews while we're cherry-picking. Are there any reliable primary sources to back up your assertion that Paul and Jesus hated the Jews because not enough of them converted?

Aha! Some scripture! 1st Thess. 2:14-16 says that the specific people who ordered Jesus' execution and drove out the Christians displeased God, and we're glad He's dealing with them. Those are somewhat harsh, but accurate theological observations, but I'm not really seeing much hate there. My pitchfork is staying firmly tethered to the ground.

Your Revelation passages refer to people in the future, so that is hardly admissable. I'm not seeing anything about conversion here at all...am I missing something? It looks like John is saying that there will be fake Jews, and they are from the synagogue of the Liar (translation of Satan). Again, not raising pitchforks over that.

Thanks for admitting that Buddhists have had problems. I'll bet you feel that the bad deeds done in the name of Buddha don't affect your moral compass; nor do they reflect your beliefs. I don't assume that they do, anyway. Likewise, the decisions of "Christians" centuries ago don't represent the Jesus I'm familiar with.

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极速赛车168官网 By: William Davis https://strangenotions.com/why-having-a-heart-of-gold-is-not-what-christianity-is-about/#comment-128251 Mon, 01 Jun 2015 12:03:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4979#comment-128251 In reply to TheTruthHurts.

In the meantime, we're all going to be wondering why Jesus (a Jew) and Paul (a Jew) wanted all of us to hate the Jews.

Because they rejected Christianity. Why did they reject Christianity? Because they were there. Jesus's "miracles" were all in Israel, especially Jerusalem, yet hardly any Jews in the region converted. The Christians were in fact kicked out of Jerusalem pretty early...obviously Jesus wasn't that impressive. This is from a Catholic source:

My sole aim is to examine the
growth of the Christian movement in the first century, and to determine in a
general way the numbers of Jews who converted to it. It will be argued that,
despite the evidence of Acts to the contrary, the Christian movement made very
little impression upon the Jewish people. Its Jewish membership probably never
exceeded 1 000 at any point in the first century, and by the 50s the Jewish
members were quite likely exceeded in number by their Gentile counterparts.

http://www.hts.org.za/index.php/HTS/article/viewFile/430/329

Some argue that there were more Jewish converts, but they were all in Asia minor, far away from the events described in the gospels. Tell me the New Testament isn't upset with Jews who didn't think Jesus was God, and I'll question if you've ever actually read it. It wasn't ethnic anti-Jewish sentiment, it was religious. To me, these are just two angles of the same thing.

Here is more backup from the NT

In several places John's gospel also associates "the Jews" with darkness and with the devil. In John 8:37-39;[11] 44-47,[12] Jesus says, speaking to a group of Pharisees:

I know that you are descendants of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me, because my word finds no place in you. I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father. They answered him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do what Abraham did. ... You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But, because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? He who is of God hears the words of God; the reason why you do not hear them is you are not of God.

According to Pieter Willem van der Horst, there is an instance of antisemitic statements in one of the Pauline epistles;[15] Paul writes in 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 as follows:

For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.

Revelation 2:9

9 “I know your affliction and your poverty, even though you are rich. I know the slander on the part of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Rev 3:9

9 I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but are lying—I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you.

So those who didn't convert aren't real Jews, they are of the synagogue of Satan...yeah.

P.S. There aren't many "Buddhist atrocities", but there are some. The list is much shorter Christianity's and Pol Pot was communist but raised Buddhist. Stalin of Soviet Russia was raised Greek Orthodox, but I don't blame Christianity for communism at all. The anti-Jewish situation is very different.

Here is a nice list of Christian witch hunts while we're on the topic:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_burn2.htm

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极速赛车168官网 By: TheTruthHurts https://strangenotions.com/why-having-a-heart-of-gold-is-not-what-christianity-is-about/#comment-128245 Mon, 01 Jun 2015 11:25:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4979#comment-128245 In reply to William Davis.

You have shown me lots of examples of individuals twisting ideas from scripture to fit their own agenda, but very little actual scripture. Papal Bulls are not scripture, and neither are Luther's writings. Still, let's see what you've got there...

Matt. 3:7- "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees..." He wasn't talking to all of the Jewish people, but specific groups (Jesus was Jewish, and He didn't consider Himself to be a viper).

Luther tries to tie together events from chapter 3 with chapter 11. Fail! Chapter 11 happened about 2 years after chapter 3. Totally intellectually dishonest.

John 8 begins with Jesus calling out the Pharisees, and then He speaks to the crowd that has gathered and tells them that if they don't believe Him (God), they are not children of Abraham, but children of Satan. That sounds very similar to something that would have been written in the Old Testament.

Nazis were Christians. Yep. Didn't deny that. Obviously, the Christian Church wanted to kill all the Jews, right? That's why the rest of the Christian nations around the world sacrificed life and limb to stop the Nazis and rescue the Jews, yeah? I see your point there.

You don't have facts, you have Luther, popes, and articles. Wikipedia? Oh noes! I can link to plenty of articles, but that won't do us much good. Show me some specific stuff in the Bible that you have a problem with, and I'll be happy to discuss those things. In the meantime, we're all going to be wondering why Jesus (a Jew) and Paul (a Jew) wanted all of us to hate the Jews.

P.S. Google "Buddhist atrocities."

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极速赛车168官网 By: Pofarmer https://strangenotions.com/why-having-a-heart-of-gold-is-not-what-christianity-is-about/#comment-127951 Sat, 30 May 2015 15:24:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4979#comment-127951 In reply to William Davis.

Need. More. Upvotes.

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极速赛车168官网 By: William Davis https://strangenotions.com/why-having-a-heart-of-gold-is-not-what-christianity-is-about/#comment-127882 Sat, 30 May 2015 13:18:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4979#comment-127882 In reply to TheTruthHurts.

I've learned a lot since a wrote that 4 months ago, here is important information you should know. The case is closed but in the opposite direction ;) First Papal Bulls, then I'll let Luther show you where in the Bible this comes from:

The Bull Cum Nimis Absurdum ("How completely absurd") of Paul IV, 1555, which created the ghetto of Rome, began with these words:

As it is completely absurd and improper in the utmost that the Jews, who through their own fault were condemned by God to eternal servitude,

The Bull Hebraeorum gens ("The Jewish Race") 1569, of Saint Pius V, which expelled Jews from some of the Papal states, began with these words:

"The Jewish people fell from the heights because of their faithlessness and condemned their Redeemer to a shameful death. Their godlessness has assumed such forms that, for the salvation of our own people, it becomes necessary to prevent their disease. Besides usury, through which Jews everywhere have sucked dry the property of impoverished Christians, they are accomplices of thieves and robbers; and the most damaging aspect of the matter is that they allure the unsuspecting through magical incantations, superstition, and witchcraft to the Synagogue of Satan and boast of being able to predict the future. We have carefully investigated how this revolting sect abuses the name of Christ and how harmful they are to those whose life is threatened by their deceit. On account of these and other serious matters, and because of the gravity of their crimes which increase day to day more and more, We order that, within 90 days, all Jews in our entire earthly realm of justice -- in all towns, districts, and places -- must depart these regions."

http://www.zionism-israel.com/hdoc/Papal_Bulls_Jews.htm

Click on that link, there is more; I just quoted the highlights.

This is from Luther's book, "On Jews and their lies". Note that Luther wrote this book just a few decades before these Papal Bulls. Luther and the Popes were spouting this garbage nearly in unison. They were allied in their hatred of Jews.

He did not call them Abraham's children, but a "brood of vipers" [Matt. 3:7]. Oh, that was too insulting for the noble blood and race of Israel, and they declared, "He has a demon' [Matt 11:18]. Our Lord also calls them a "brood of vipers"; furthermore in John 8 [:39,44] he states: "If you were Abraham's children ye would do what Abraham did.... You are of your father the devil. It was intolerable to them to hear that they were not Abraham's but the devil's children, nor can they bear to hear this today.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Luther_on_Jews.html

Germany was almost entirely Christian during the holocaust:

In 1933, prior to the annexation of Austria into Germany, the population of Germany was approximately 67% Protestant and 33% Catholic.[1] A census in May 1939, six years into the Nazi era[2] and incorporating the annexation of mostly Catholic Austria into Germany, indicates that 54% considered themselves Protestant (including non-denominational Christians), 40% Catholic, 3.5% self-identified as "gottgläubig" (lit. "believers in god", often described as predominately creationist and deistic[3]), and 1.5% as non-religious. Most members of the Nazi Party were Christians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany

So yeah, case closed. I've got facts, what do you have?

P.S. As far as I know, Buddhism has never been used for such purposes. Here is a great article on anti-Jewish sentiment and the New Testament Specifically. The more you know, the worse it gets. I will never be a Christian because it is an unjust religion on many levels. I go into detail on this site. Keep reading, I'd love to convince you of this fact :) I'm much better at debating this now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_and_the_New_Testament

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极速赛车168官网 By: TheTruthHurts https://strangenotions.com/why-having-a-heart-of-gold-is-not-what-christianity-is-about/#comment-127795 Sat, 30 May 2015 04:44:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4979#comment-127795 In reply to William Davis.

No one has ever used love, reason, compassion, or Buddhism to commit atrocities? No one has ever twisted those ideologies to fit their own wicked plans? These must all first be completely understood to be applied effectively, just like Christianity.

Did you know that there is nothing in the Bible, once actual thought has been applied, that can be interpreted as condemning to Jewish people (the people defended by God Himself from the front to the back of the book)? Jesus was Jewish. Paul was all about Jesus, and he was Jewish and proud of it. He also denounced Pharisees. Neither hated Jews. Case closed. Luther and Hitler were clearly not above twisting other philosophies to fit their own.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Alexandra https://strangenotions.com/why-having-a-heart-of-gold-is-not-what-christianity-is-about/#comment-106121 Sat, 28 Mar 2015 15:00:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4979#comment-106121 In reply to William Davis.

What is your evidence thet the church said "black people have no souls"?

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极速赛车168官网 By: Josef Laspina https://strangenotions.com/why-having-a-heart-of-gold-is-not-what-christianity-is-about/#comment-106112 Sat, 28 Mar 2015 14:24:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4979#comment-106112 In reply to KareemAbdul.

Slavery persisted and persists today because mankind wanted it, regardless of the RCC & the belief in Jesus Christ's Resurrection or the universal resurrection.

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极速赛车168官网 By: William Davis https://strangenotions.com/why-having-a-heart-of-gold-is-not-what-christianity-is-about/#comment-92980 Sat, 21 Feb 2015 21:26:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4979#comment-92980 In reply to Randy Otis.

Your words from your comment history:

"the church thinks that is going to get more butts in the pews...I guess there are not enough baby killers (Democrats) sitting in the church.

You would know his "solutions" if you were not a baby killing liberal troll

judgement on the Pope means nothing coming from a baby killing liberal

Must be Abramson is a racist.....is that not what it is when you say something negative about a black person?...maybe only people on the political right can be racist and not the baby killer left......

PP does not do screenings, they only refer people to go elsewhere..but don"t let the facts get in the way of good baby killing liberal lies."

Do you realize how dimwitted your comment history makes you look? You are like a broken record (and this is over 2 years). You might want to make it private, you should be really embarrassed. You might also want to be more worried about what killed your brain cells than baby killing democrats.

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极速赛车168官网 By: William Davis https://strangenotions.com/why-having-a-heart-of-gold-is-not-what-christianity-is-about/#comment-92785 Sat, 21 Feb 2015 13:32:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4979#comment-92785 In reply to Randy Otis.

Lol, slow day at fox news? For the record I'm a reasonably conservative liberal, but I'm not a true conservative liberal, as I reject the Christian notion of the self, the Buddhist notion is much more compatible with modern psychological and neurological findings. If you don't like liberals, you must be authoritarian, thinking the government should control much more of people's lives. Not surprising if you are a Catholic, though most Christians accept the enlightenment view of government at this point. I do think that having an imaginary "Big Brother" (God) is necessary for some people to control themselves, they must enact an authoritarian regime within there own mind. I've had many tell me this is very accurate, and that is why Christianity is so helpful for drug addicts and other criminals. So of us actually want to do the right thing because we are built that way.

For the record, progressives are the opposite of conservatives, and liberals are the opposite of authoritarians. Anyone who isn't a liberal is an enemy of liberty and is truly against what America was founded on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

This is from the article on authoritarianism, they directly mention the Catholic church, lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_liberalism

Keep reading btw, I get to the Catholic Churches direct involvement with anti-Jewish papal bulls and the creation of the first Ghettos.
Isn't internet debating fun where can actually source fact and not worry about pulling punches? P.S. Calling me a baby killer makes you look like a complete fool and despicable person...

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