极速赛车168官网 Comments on: Have We Discovered the God Particle? https://strangenotions.com/god-particle/ A Digital Areopagus // Reason. Faith. Dialogue. Mon, 05 Jan 2015 23:55:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.1 极速赛车168官网 By: Joshus https://strangenotions.com/god-particle/#comment-80287 Mon, 05 Jan 2015 23:55:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3604#comment-80287 You People Are Driving Me Insane.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Zaoldyeck https://strangenotions.com/god-particle/#comment-30415 Sat, 14 Sep 2013 20:09:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3604#comment-30415 In reply to wayne stahre.

"When you begin your defense with, "...or a Higgs Boson like particle,"
you have made my point. The Higgs Boson particle has NOT been
discovered"

It likely has, but we simply need longer for the statistics to give us more confidence. We know we have a) Detected a particle, and b) Know the particle behaves similar to how we expect a Higgs to behave.

Now, you're right, it could turn out not to be the Higgs, but so far, it looks like it is.

Newton's model or theoretical underpinnings (or lack thereoff) might have been wrong, but his PREDICTIONS were, by and large, accurate. Sure they couldn't predict things like the precession of Mercury's orbit, or would never even begin to predict gravitational lensing... but that's not the majority of predictions about mechanics that our species makes. Newton's laws are generally 'right enough'.

It's when physics finds those areas of "wrong", like Newton's failure to explain the precession of Mercury's orbit, or when Michelson and Morley failed to discover a deviation in the speed of light (consistent with Maxwell's equations but not the Aether) which mandated physics grow, adapt, and change far more than with models we find to be correct.

I'm a big fan of us finding the Higgs, but I fully realize that when we're wrong, it's always more interesting.

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极速赛车168官网 By: wayne stahre https://strangenotions.com/god-particle/#comment-30388 Sat, 14 Sep 2013 15:11:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3604#comment-30388 In reply to Zaoldyeck.

When you begin your defense with, "...or a Higgs Boson like particle," you have made my point. The Higgs Boson particle has NOT been discovered. So, either the search goes on, is abandoned, or the definition of what the Higgs Boson is must be revised. As for Newton, he was mostly wrong. Gravity is not a property of matter. Matter warps space-time and that is what accounts for planetary motion. It might seem like a minor point, but lack of precision causes problems; like saying that the Higgs Boson particle has been discovered when one should have said that a Higgs Boson like particle has been discovered.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Zaoldyeck https://strangenotions.com/god-particle/#comment-30364 Sat, 14 Sep 2013 04:22:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3604#comment-30364 In reply to wayne stahre.

Pardon? Yes, we have found the Higgs. (Or "higgs-like particle") and we hope it is the standard model higgs.

That's because the Higgs boson is the last particle yet to be discovered under the "standard model of particle physics". We expect to find it. We would be shocked if we're wrong... (or as Nima Ankari-Hamed put it, he would commit suicide if the Higgs turns out to be a techni dilaton.)

When we are shocked we have to create new and more accurate physics. Being right is cool, but ultimately, always more boring.

We expected to find the Higgs just like we expected to find the top quark back when the Tevatron discovered it in 1996.

If we had been wrong, it would have required quite a lot of reworking of physics. We weren't wrong, and so physics continued with its nice standard model.

Now that we have the Higgs, physics desperately is in need for some anomalous data. The LHC however does give us access to much higher energy scales than the Tevatron, so it's certainly possible for us to get some in the near future.

(I say "much higher" energy scales, but really, it's only 7TeV per beam, as opposed to 1 with the Tevatron. So *almost* an order of magnitude.)

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极速赛车168官网 By: wayne stahre https://strangenotions.com/god-particle/#comment-30351 Sat, 14 Sep 2013 00:26:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3604#comment-30351 In reply to Zaoldyeck.

http://home.web.cern.ch/about/updates/2013/03/new-results-indicate-new-particle-higgs-boson

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极速赛车168官网 By: Zaoldyeck https://strangenotions.com/god-particle/#comment-30258 Fri, 13 Sep 2013 05:14:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3604#comment-30258 In reply to wayne stahre.

Except I'd argue that if we hadn't found the Higgs, it'd have been equivalent to hitting the physics lottery.

Not finding the Higgs would arguably be far more an interesting development to the world of physics than any confirmation ever will. Why? Because physics grows most when predictions we make fail to be confirmed. Failed predictions mean "we were wrong", and force us to examine things more deeply. "We were wrong" is a lot, LOT more interesting to examine than "we were right, again".

Consider Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation. Now, it's "mostly right", in that it makes excellent predictions for most of our planets. But it fails to account for the precession of the perihelion of mercury's orbit. A minor detail, but a consistently wrong prediction none the less.

Consider the Luminiferous Eather. Michelson and Morley's experiment *should* have been able to see a different in the speed of light. If physics worked as we had predicted, we expected to see difference depending upon the relative position of the earth.

We didn't. Instead we struggled for a few years to rework our mathematics under a new framework, Relativity. It's important to note that while the Luminiferous Eather may have been wrong, stunningly so, mathematics developed along with the theory is fully correct. We don't call it the "minkowski metric" or "lorentz transforms" for no reason. They published before Einstein ever published Special Relativity.

Being wrong, having strong, robust predictions come back in our face as being stunningly wrong mandates we develop entirely new sets of underlying principles and premises.

Confirming the Higgs tells us we're right, and sadly, little else. Proving the Higgs wrong would have told us we're wrong, and begin a quest for entirely new physics to explain the data we have.

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极速赛车168官网 By: 1weeman https://strangenotions.com/god-particle/#comment-29568 Fri, 30 Aug 2013 08:57:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3604#comment-29568 I am going to stick with Quantumanity for now but I don't think we will ever be able to understand the causation that created us.

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极速赛车168官网 By: wayne stahre https://strangenotions.com/god-particle/#comment-29558 Thu, 29 Aug 2013 21:53:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3604#comment-29558 I am very suspicious of the results announced with respect to the
discovery of the Higgs Boson particle. About six months before the
'discovery' there was growing anxiety among the particle physics
community that the LHC had not yet discovered the particle and was,
"running out of places to look." A scientist made an analogy to
looking for a particular pair of socks which might be in one of 1,000
dresser drawers. They had searched 998 drawers so far without success.
While it is true that you always find something in the last place you
look for it, that place is usually not the last place it could possibly
be. When the announcement of the discovery was finally made; the billions* of dollars spent on the LHC had not been wasted and the jobs of the hundreds of
people working on the LHC project were secure, what was nearly lost was
the qualification that what had been found was not exactly the higgs
boson but a sort of mirror image of it. I pause and ask myself was it
merely luck that the project succeeded at the last possible minute?
Even Einstein used a fudge factor in his equations (lambda).

* yes, with a 'B'

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极速赛车168官网 By: josh https://strangenotions.com/god-particle/#comment-29544 Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:12:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3604#comment-29544 Nothing wrong with the article. I will add that although the Higgs was predicted according to the Standard Model, it didn't have to show up at the LHC, particularly at the mass where we found it. There are other theories that don't have a Higgs that could have been true, although in recent years they tend to be more complicated and difficult to fit to all the data. Also, the Higgs is the first possibly fundamental scalar we have found, a scalar being a particular type of particle according to a property called intrinsic spin.

Finding the Higgs is already a definite success for the LHC, although we hope there will be others.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Brandon Vogt https://strangenotions.com/god-particle/#comment-29540 Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:17:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=3604#comment-29540 In reply to Kevin Aldrich.

"What does this have to do with a Catholic/atheist dialogue?"

Perhaps the cultural-buzz about a so-called "God particle" which potentially offers new insights into the origins of the universe.

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