极速赛车168官网 Comments on: Did Dinosaurs Die Before the Fall?

极速赛车168官网 By: Sample1

Sample1 — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 02:02:00 +0000

In reply to Wretched Knave. Why do people call you wretched? Mike

极速赛车168官网 By: Wretched Knave

Wretched Knave — Sat, 23 Feb 2019 22:40:00 +0000

In reply to Andy Rhodes. Everything you have stated here is exactly how I feel. The bottom line is that if the story of Genesis is not literary truth, only metaphorically implied, then why should the rest of the Bible be taken seriously?

极速赛车168官网 By: Paul Bolton

Paul Bolton — Sun, 05 Nov 2017 12:23:00 +0000

"We are not fallen angels but risen apes" Christopher Hitchens.

极速赛车168官网 By: Andy Rhodes

Andy Rhodes — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 23:06:00 +0000

While acknowledging the majority of traditional orthodox theological interpretations until the past two centuries, how can the validity of the Bible’s claim that physical death came into the world through sin (including the suffering of both humans and animals) be maintained since death is an integral part of the universe (according to common sense observation and today’s scientific community in paleontology, evolutionary biology, embryology, cell biology, botany, astronomy, astrophysics, geology, geography and math)? And if this classic Judeo-Christian belief has become untenable, the entire doctrine of the atonement falls apart and salvation from damnation is not needed because it is clear that the universe (made by God) has always operated within the parameters we understand now. In recent centuries, growing scientific knowledge about the ages of things like galaxies and rocks and species has forced many Christian theologians to develop other explanations in which death of some or all sorts existed before sin. But, these viewpoints make it much harder to defend God’s goodness, given that natural evils for nonhuman animal suffering and humans are then recognized as being apparently congruent with the original divine plan, with or without sin.

http://www.probe.org/christian-views-of-science-and-earth-history/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_evil

The web link below presents a one page list of modern science’s understanding of how death is natural and generative. I think there may have been spiritual or relational “death” that appeared after the first major rebellion against God and continues today when people resist healthy forms of relationship with Her/Him, fellow humans and/or the rest of nature. But, this spiritual, ethical, psychological and/or physical damage creates a finite need for salvation from specific circumstances and/or temporal conditions, not a cosmic dilemma that requires an eternal solution.

http://www.thegreatstory.org/charts/death.html

极速赛车168官网 By: Andy Rhodes

Andy Rhodes — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 06:08:00 +0000

What is the evidence that God knows what he’s doing? She created a Garden of Eden that collapsed after just one sin, thus ruining the entire cosmos. What kind of planning and love is that? He felt that he had to flood the Earth and kill everything on it to start over, but didn't change the DNA of the human species "infected" and "depraved". So the same pattern of rebellion against God was virtually guaranteed to happen again, even though God would continue to blame humans 100% for their actions regardless of the significant moral, intellectual and emotional weaknesses they received at birth. What could describe a more embarrassing track record of mismanagement and waste? She placed us on planet Earth, which is largely inhospitable to human life. Only through over 100,000 years of perseverance toward technological, social and moral development has our species learned how to survive consistently. Before the 20th century, the expected life span for all human history was 35-40 years or even lower. During that lifetime, people suffered from disease, famine, attacks by predatory creatures, ignorance, violence, fear, natural disasters, dread, etc., often limited like wild animals in the midst of a labyrinth of dangers and terrifying surprises, with no guarantee of anything beneficent or providential.

Traditional monotheism certainly wasn’t obvious to 99% of world cultures throughout history, as only the three Abrahamic faiths and Zoroastrians believed that way. Comfort, guidance and protection deriving from a perfectly good, wise and powerful God eluded humans in their billions by no fault of their own – the genetic hardwiring of their brains didn’t lead them inevitably to see the world as being rooted in something other than pantheism, animism, polytheism, atheism, deism or panentheism. God made a cosmos that is built on the necessity of continual cycles in destruction-creation and life-death. Without the death of stars, there would be no galaxies or life in the universe. Without biological death and life processes integrated together, the Earth’s ecosystem would not function. The orthodox Christian assertion of a “safe” environment for human (or other) life in the Garden of Eden is completely implausible given these realities. God made a dangerous universe from the beginning. There’s no evidence of a biblical Fall away from an earlier utopian origin. The Bible says that in the future God will create a New Heavens and New Earth that is systematically designed to be without sin, death and severe pain and yet many people will be there who didn’t choose Christ – babies, the mentally handicapped and perhaps the unevangelized as well. So, why would God make our current universe so harsh and baffling? And why hide or make unintelligible the various essential revelations of God from most people for most of history?

Given what I’ve said above, why would it be rational to trust that God is looking out for our welfare, here or in the afterlife? I can see goodness and wonder in nature, yet there is also a vast range in types of suffering, waste and tragedy awaiting living things on this planet. This is not because of sin. The universe has been like this since shortly after its existence was inaugurated 13.7 billion years ago. A conservative young earth creationist who wants to maintain that the cosmos began 6,000-10,000 years ago is stuck in the dilemma of explaining how the biology, physics, geology, chemistry, etc.(1) of such a recent start could match with with the radically contrasting record found in the field of natural history and all other areas of science which have been studied and verified for centuries, many times by researchers with Christian beliefs.

(1) disagreementsihavewithchristianity.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/if-physical-death-entered-the-world-because-of-sin-why-does-science-contradict-this

==========================================

The paragraphs above were copied from one of the articles on my blog site: disagreementsihavewithchristianity.wordpress.com. I'd love to hear feedback on any of the 20 articles there, if you feel so inclined.

极速赛车168官网 By: Max Driffill

Max Driffill — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 05:12:00 +0000

This article seems to assume that there was a literal Adam and Eve. Why? Were Adam and Eve not human? How could anything Adam and Eve do have affected anything that happened prior to their existence. I assume, since the author tries to appeal to the fossil record he thinks it has something meaningful to say about reality. Humans are a relatively new player on the evolutionary stage (anatomically modern humans, Homo sapiens are at best 250,000 years old). Was the Garden in some kind of alternative space, while the biota did its thing? And what are we to make of the fact that the fossil record demonstrates that primates have been succumbing to death since they first appear in the fossil record (hence all the fossils eh?) What follows may appear to be small quibbles but from the perspective of an evolutionary biologist will be an important point. 1. Humans are animals. Please quit using false distinction humans and animals... 2. Dinosaurs didn't die out. At least one line of theropods squeaked past the Cretaceous/Tertiary event. They are with us to this very day. They are the birds.

极速赛车168官网 By: Chris

Chris — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 00:40:00 +0000

In reply to Peter Piper. "There have also been articles which come across as hectoring and uncharitable in the way that they relate to those who disagree. I'm thinking in particular of the review of God's Philosophers, though again there are other examples.I suspect that this isn't due to any malice on the part of those selecting the articles, but that instead it is difficult to avoid these sorts of problems if you are deeply embedded in a Catholic worldview" The review you are complaining about was written by an atheist.

极速赛车168官网 By: Edwin Taraba

Edwin Taraba — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 18:07:00 +0000

How do we know that entropy existed before the fall? What
was the universe like before the fall? Jimmy seems to assume that cells are
individual organisms each with their own identity, mind and life and death
cycle. Yet they may not be individual organisms. Cells, taken collectively,
constitute a single organism. Only the life and death cycle of “an organism”,
an organized body constituting a sapient being, is in question. When Leo XIII
said Truth cannot contradict Truth (Providentissimus Deus) too many Catholics
begin to twist the meaning of scripture to make it fit science, forgetting that
science is imperfect and always changing its basic precepts even on a daily
basis. Truth cannot contradict Truth should be an appeal to focus on the
untruths in science. For in the “science” of evolution untruth abounds -
ignorance, prejudice and self deceit abound. Oops, I may have insulted an
atheist, or lost scientist. But science only improves when untruths are
revealed. Better that we insult untruths that deserve insult than let them drag
us along with them to their ends in eternal flame. Call a sin a sin. Call a
brood of vipers a brood of vipers. Evolution is bad science and should be
labeled terrible ignorance that Pius XII called A FALSE OPINION THREATENING TO
UNDERMINE THE FOUNDATIONS OF CATHOLIC DOCTRINE. Those are strong words. Those
are True words. Advertise that. Call to mind the horrors of bad science present
in evolution. That is what Humani Generis called us to do. Those that suppress
or misunderstand that point should “Get Thee behind me Satan”. Get on track
with the Magisterium’s intent and if we have to, get the Magisterium back on
track with God when they go astray, rather than acting as if they have never
gone astray before. Remember that God hath chosen the foolish things of the
world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to
confound the things which are mighty. Let us not place Jimmy, Aquinas and
Augustine too much higher above the level of the fallible humans they are, struggling
like many of us, to understand how God created. Let us remember that when
comparing humans to The Almighty God there is very little difference in the
level of Wisdom between me, you and Jimmy, and Aquinas for that matter. Putting
these human philosophers on a scale with God and the Angels who witnessed
creation, fallible humans struggle from a stand point of ignorance not much
higher than any other fallible humans. And let us avoid adding to scripture to
try to bring it into alignment with our partial understanding of a grand
universe created from nothing by God in the beginning of time. Many are not
aware of the affect Einstein’s relativity will ultimately have on this
discussion when it begins to be understood the affect that gravity has on the passage
of time. That 7 twenty-four hour days (or revolutions of the Earth) could
transpire on Earth while at the same time billions of years pass in other parts
of the expanding universe during creation week. It is not at all unfeasible
given that time and motion are relative. To begin understanding this consider
that passengers in an airplane are sitting still, moving at 500 mph, 1600 mph
and 67,000 mph all at the same time depending on the frame of reference –
depending on which objects you are comparing. In the same way creation week
could have been one week long for an observer on Earth while star light made
its billions of light year travel to Earth. Thus as 2nd Peter
Chapter 3 said, one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a
day – that is to God and the angels who viewed everything transpire from a
position outside the universe. Jimmy seems to assume that cells are individual
organisms each with their own identity, mind and life and death cycle. Yet they
are not individual organisms. Cells, taken collectively, constitute a single
organism. Only the life and death cycle of “an organism” is in question. Putting
the cells of a fruit into the context of a life, death and immortality of their
own may be a misconception. This misconception is possibly due in part, on a
more basic level, to our own ignorance of what a cell really is and not only
that, but what a molecule and the atoms, neutrons, protons, and electrons
composing each molecule really are. I do not believe the creation and destruction
of individual cells is a valid component of the argument and do not believe it places
the argument in its proper context. First, the life of the fruit on a tree is
different than the life of the tree itself. The life of a sperm is different
than the life of an embryo. Though a body decays in the grave it is resurrected
to immortal life. Not only do we not understand what a cell is in this life we
certainly do not understand the composition of a glorified resurrected body in
terms of its cellular composition. Resurrection may be independent of the
existence of the trillions of cells that composed the body on earth. Scripture
states: And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed
into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul. And the Lord
God had planted a paradise of pleasure from the beginning: wherein he placed
man whom he had formed. And the Lord God brought forth of the ground all manner
of trees, fair to behold, and pleasant to eat of: the tree of life also in the
midst of paradise: and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Scripture goes
out of its way to explain that before the fall all animal life was vegetarian, every
beast of the earth. Genesis 1:29-30 And God said, “Behold, I have given
you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every
tree in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for
meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to
every thing that creepeth upon the earth wherein there is life, I have given
every green herb for meat”; and it was so.” Scripture goes out of its way to
portray the Kingdom
of Heaven as a
resurrected world where animal death does not exist yet returns to the kind of
paradise spoken of in Genesis regarding the early world. Isaiah 11:6-7 The wolf
shall dwell with the lamb: and the leopard shall lie down with the kid: the
calf and the lion, and the sheep shall abide together, and a little child shall
lead them. The calf and the bear shall feed: their young ones shall rest
together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. How do you know that the
fall did not bring about a major shift in all of creation converting a paradise
into the evils and pain of the fallen world? How do you know what details were
involved in this transformation? How do you know that carnivores existed in the
Garden of Eden? How do you know scientifically what constituted the chemical
and biological life of paradise and try to force our concept, the paradigm of
the fallen world, to match the daily bread of pristine paradise of Eden? Thus whether your
name is Bede, Augustine, Aquinas, or Akins you are human and you were not
present during the early world nor did you witness God making life out of the
ground of the earth. Therefore do not ADD to Scripture, by going into
unfruitful imaginations at great length trying to conceive how it happened –
only because a false science contradicts our previous world view of paradise?
Accept that the fall happened. It caused a major change in everything and
reject false science where it rejects the Almighty Omnipotence and the all
powerful creative power of the One and Only Supernatural God. There are a preponderance
of fallacies to be pointed out in radiometric dating and the invention, (not
the discovery of) the geologic “time scale”, the science of paleontology and
fossils, DNA and microbiology. The science of sedimentology and the presence of
petrified trees in the strata demonstrates how strata may have been formed by
the great flood. Is it not time that we face the fact that the fossil record
does not support Darwin
because evolution did not happen. Pope John Paul II said “Today, more than a
half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us
toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis.” Why did he not
mention the dozens, no hundreds, of books that contradict Darwin’s random mutation and natural
selection ideas? Maybe he never read any of them including Darwin’s books where he questioned his theory
in the chapter “Difficulties with the theory”. Maybe Catholics need to call to
the floor the complete absence in John Paul II’s statement of any scientific
point that contradicts Darwin except through subtle implications of there being
more than one theory of evolution, all the while he preserved, and highlighted
and drove home the main point of his speech, that there is no conflict between
Catholic doctrine and evolution – a completely wrong twist to the spirit of
Humani Generis. Maybe we need to strengthen the scientists who point the finger
at bad science in evolution and stop trying to bend over backwards expending
our energies broadcasting words that allow bad science to modify our Catholic
doctrine. Maybe it is time to raise the red flag that Humani Generis is a call
to fight against evolution calling it a false opinion and a fictitious doctrine
threatening to undermine the foundations of Catholic doctrine. It is time we
ally ourselves with the science of creation and get off the evolution band
wagon.

极速赛车168官网 By: Brian Green Adams

Brian Green Adams — Sun, 06 Oct 2013 12:18:00 +0000

Hey if you're believing in Genesis in anything like a literal sense, anything is possible. But I don't see what entropy has to do with this. Entropy is not just the reason we die but also live and grow.

极速赛车168官网 By: mriehm

mriehm — Sat, 05 Oct 2013 18:16:00 +0000

This is just silly. Humans evolved. Evolution necessitates death. All ancestors of humans, all the way up the animal line, died. Humans inherited programmed death in their genes from their ancestors. There has always been aging, to the point of death. All animals, including humans and early humanoids, have always been at risk of death from aging and myriad risks in the natural world.