极速赛车168官网 Comments on: From Faith Came Science: The Condemnations of 1277 https://strangenotions.com/from-faith-came-science-the-condemnations-of-1277/ A Digital Areopagus // Reason. Faith. Dialogue. Thu, 15 Mar 2018 03:43:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.1 极速赛车168官网 By: Bad Horse https://strangenotions.com/from-faith-came-science-the-condemnations-of-1277/#comment-187687 Thu, 15 Mar 2018 03:43:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4150#comment-187687 This is a disingenuous narrative. Jean Buridan was obscure during his lifetime, as were all philosophers throughout the Middle Ages who looked into natural laws (unless they were either excommunicated, or became famous for unrelated reasons). The dominant belief throughout the Middle Ages was that the positing of natural laws was a heretical imposition of limitations on God's omnipotence. This was made explicit in the Condemnations of 1277, condemnation of proposition #16, "That the first cause is the most remote cause of all things. – This is erroneous if so
understood as to mean that it is not the most proximate."

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极速赛车168官网 By: Andrew Wolfe https://strangenotions.com/from-faith-came-science-the-condemnations-of-1277/#comment-180450 Sun, 17 Sep 2017 15:14:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4150#comment-180450 In reply to Jim (hillclimber).

I am a crazy person, in some views, because I believe completely that a Judeo-Christian (Catholic) worldview is critical to scientific inquiry as we know it. You have to believe in objective truth, you have to believe that creation is governed by precise and inalterable laws of nature. Such beliefs are completely unprovable, and many human civilizations have proceeded without them. The notion that most scientists are atheists is actually laughable, because even if a scientist thinks he/she is an atheist, the exploration of creation AS IF IT WERE BOUND by inalterable laws is itself a leap of faith. Why is this Judeo-Christian? Mainly because this is the only theology in which a unitary God is completely unchanging throughout eternity. Not only does this require monotheism (because multiple gods always quarrel), it actually excludes Islam in which Allah seems to have these changes of heart. In all these things Christianity completes the revelation given to the Jews - there is no other that does so.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Andrew Wolfe https://strangenotions.com/from-faith-came-science-the-condemnations-of-1277/#comment-180448 Sun, 17 Sep 2017 15:04:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4150#comment-180448 Just came upon this. It is useful, but you did not write it as effectively as you could have. In discussing each of the condemnations, it is unclear whether you are recounting the condemned thought or some positive assertion of Bishop Tempier. In particular when you write 'Proposition 66 said that rectilinear motion is possible for planets and stars. “That God could not move the heaven in a straight line, the reason being that He would then leave a vacuum.”' I don't know whether the Aristotelians said that or Tempier. I would suggest that you specifically include the claim of the Aristotelians for each, and Tempier's positive counterclaim. That way you would not have to go into each refutation in detail.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Andrew Wolfe https://strangenotions.com/from-faith-came-science-the-condemnations-of-1277/#comment-180447 Sun, 17 Sep 2017 15:00:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4150#comment-180447 In reply to M. Solange O'Brien.

Methodological atheism is a faith that there are physical laws governing the universe. The notion of physical laws is nowhere guaranteed by anything. You can observe evidence supporting them, you can believe them, but you cannot prove them. Stick a fork in it.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Hans-Georg Lundahl https://strangenotions.com/from-faith-came-science-the-condemnations-of-1277/#comment-102715 Fri, 20 Mar 2015 15:02:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4150#comment-102715 Notice a few of the things the condemnation of the propositions did NOT condemn:

a) that Heaven as a whole is moved in its daily rotation around Earth by God
b) that heavenly bodies (great and small luminaries and presumably also invisible ones) are moved by angels.

Here is a Latin version of propositions condemned, chapters ordered thematically, so double numeration (number in chapter and number in original condemnation), with comments/footnotes also in Latin by me:

http://ppt.li/tempier

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极速赛车168官网 By: Benjamin Vallejo Jr https://strangenotions.com/from-faith-came-science-the-condemnations-of-1277/#comment-57781 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 06:54:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4150#comment-57781 In reply to Jim (hillclimber).

One of these vestiges you say is the autonomy of science from theology, which is a direct consequences of the 1277 condemnations.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Benjamin Vallejo Jr https://strangenotions.com/from-faith-came-science-the-condemnations-of-1277/#comment-57780 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 06:53:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4150#comment-57780 "By striving for new understanding toward reconciliation, even amid tension that appears to some as crisis, new insights to realistic breakthroughs can be made. Scientific progress needs the light of faith."

After Charles Darwin clearly demonstrated that faith is not necessary for a scientific understanding of nature, it is better said as "Scientific progress requires a dialogue with faith"

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极速赛车168官网 By: Doug Shaver https://strangenotions.com/from-faith-came-science-the-condemnations-of-1277/#comment-55994 Fri, 01 Aug 2014 03:16:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4150#comment-55994 In reply to Kevin Aldrich.

A second way the Catholic faith can criticize "science" is when scientists, or people who claim they speak for science, or who say "science tells us X" claim that just because we can do something it is moral for us to do it.

If Catholics want me to applaud their faith for disputing such a claim, I don't mind doing so. Most of us secularists, though, think the absurdity of that claim is too obvious to need the endorsement of a religion or any other authority.

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极速赛车168官网 By: Ye Olde Statistician https://strangenotions.com/from-faith-came-science-the-condemnations-of-1277/#comment-55583 Fri, 25 Jul 2014 00:06:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4150#comment-55583 In reply to M. Solange O'Brien.

Science, on the basis of observation CONCLUDED the regularity of the universe.

Except that the belief in a rationally-ordered universe long predates anything we would call modern science. Alas, in history effects cannot come before their causes.
For example, Adelard of Bath in the 12th century, wrote in a dialogue with his nephew:
"[T]he natural order does not exist confusedly and without rational arrangement, and human reason should be listened to concerning those things it treats of. But when it completely fails, then the matter should be referred to God. Therefore, since we have not yet completely lost the use of our minds, let us return to reason."
-- Quaestiones naturales
and again:
"If we turn our back on the amazing rational beauty of the universe we live in, we should indeed deserve to be driven from it, like a guest unappreciative of the house into which he has been received."

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极速赛车168官网 By: Ye Olde Statistician https://strangenotions.com/from-faith-came-science-the-condemnations-of-1277/#comment-55581 Thu, 24 Jul 2014 23:57:00 +0000 http://strangenotions.com/?p=4150#comment-55581 In reply to M. Solange O'Brien.

George suggests the voluntarism propounded by al-Ghazali, which did indeed stifle science in the Islamic world. Ibn Rushd argued against it -- fire really does burn cloth, he insisted -- but he lost the intellectual battle there.
But if science would work better with Confucianism, one is stuck with the problem of why it did not. Needham, the great scholar of Chinese technology asserted just the opposite. (See comment above.)

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